Why was the Irish Labour Party never able to seriously challenge Fianna Fail?

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#1
I know people will put this fact down in general to Cold War hysterics coming from the Pulpit but I don't buy this because when they went to Britain Irish Catholics showed themselves more than happy to vote for Hard Left British Labour Party candidates many of whom would have been a LOT closer to Moscow than anyone in the Irish LP would have been. Also Irish Catholics showed themselves happy to ignore the political advise of Priests under the Tan and Civil Wars.
 
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#2
the rural/urban split? Irish in England based in cities, whilst FF could appeal to the social conservatism and rural attachment to proprietorship of small holdings?
 
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#3
the rural/urban split? Irish in England based in cities, whilst FF could appeal to the social conservatism and rural attachment to proprietorship of small holdings?
But immigration to England was more common in rural areas in the West than it was from say Dublin and Cork. Also not everyone by a long way in rural Ireland owned farms of their own.

I think it is partly down to two things, first off that they were seen as Proxies for Fine Gael and secondly just didn't come across as "Irish" enough to a lot of people.

During the Civil War the LP didn't take an official position, however it's one TD voted for the Treaty.
 

Tadhg Gaelach

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#5
I know people will put this fact down in general to Cold War hysterics coming from the Pulpit but I don't buy this because when they went to Britain Irish Catholics showed themselves more than happy to vote for Hard Left British Labour Party candidates many of whom would have been a LOT closer to Moscow than anyone in the Irish LP would have been. Also Irish Catholics showed themselves happy to ignore the political advise of Priests under the Tan and Civil Wars.

Labour got off to a bad start in the free state. Right from the get go they were propping up the extreme anti-worker régime of Cosgrave. I think it would be no exaggeration to say that Cosgrave and his cohort actually hated and feared poor people. Labour supported Cosgrave when he took a shilling from the old age pension in 1923 to balance the books. He didn't take a shilling from the rich, but from the poorest people. And that shilling was the difference between starvation and survival for thousands of rural families. In fact there was a de facto famine in rural Ireland in the mid 1920s, which Labour presided over and helped to cover up. When Fianna Fáil entered Leinster House in 1927, the Cosgrave propaganda was that FF were Reds - something that they never said about Labour. And, in fact, it could be said that FF was a much more working class party than Labour was, and did a hell of a lot more for the poor than Labour did. And Labour has been the running dog of Fine Gael ever since.
 
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#6
''The two currents of revolutionary thought in Ireland, the Nationalist and the Socialist, are not antagonistic but complimentary'' - James Connolly

''The two currents of revolutionary thought in Cornwall, the Nationalist and the Socialist, are not antagonistic but complimentary''





O'Neill calls for clear run for two Sinn Féin candidates

Sinn Féin leader in the North Michelle O'Neill called today on the SDLP to give a clear run to Michelle Gildernew and John Finucane in North Belfast and in Fermanagh South Tyrone.

She said they were the only two credible anti-Brexit, pro-equality and pro-rights candidates.

Michelle O'Neill said:

“Sinn Féin is contesting this snap general election to stand up for equality, rights and Irish unity and against Brexit, a border and Tory cuts.

“It is again another opportunity for the people to have their say.

“We believe that the electorate also want a progressive, modern society which moves forward together and in people’s best economic interests.

“When the Westminster election campaign was announced I took the initiative to invite other party leaders to explore the possibilities of a progressive pact to maximise the anti-Brexit, anti Tory vote and pro-rights and pro-equality vote.

“Other parties were unable to take up this offer.

“I am calling therefore on the SDLP to give a clear run to John Finucane and Michelle Gildernew as the only credible anti-Brexit, pro equality and pro-rights candidates in North Belfast and Fermanagh South Tyrone.”O'Neill calls for clear run for two Sinn Féin candidates | Sinn Féin

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As much as we must hate to admit it ‘voting Labour’ is not ‘the only way to remove Theresa May’ – although it remains of course the key plank in any such strategy, and for defending Wales against the blue tide. And for those who put party over people, of course, Labour’s entrails will disappear with them.

We must think again, and we must think fast, because we will aid and abet a dangerous Labour defeat for Wales and beyond if we continue as we are. We cannot be sure that we will live to fight another day; failure in the General Election and the establishment of new voting patterns will inevitably lead to decline in the Assembly, leaving the way clear for an emboldened Tory party with the British establishment at its behest.

Our leader Carwyn has the choice of seeing us through another referendum and one more historic act of recreation, to set himself forever in the pantheon of Welsh heroes. His other choice is to allow apathy, confusion and desolation to rein, and to be remembered as the leader who allowed the Wales we know and love to slip from our grasp. - The case for a Labour-Plaid Cymru electoral pact to prevent a Tory ...


The Labour Party's of Britain and Ireland are separated from Pro-Independence Cornish, Irish, Manx, Scottish and Welsh Nationalist and Independence Movements. The Irish Labour Party support the SDLP taking their seats in London, and the SDLP continuously split the Irish Nationalist vote, despite the blatant political gerrymandering in the North of Ireland by the Unionists.

How many seats Labour in England would have gained in this election, by agreeing a pact with the four main Nationalist Parties in Cornwall, Ireland, Scotland and Wales, who all have huge influence in the Celtic Diaspora, we will never know, but we will know for certain how many potential seats were lost to Unionists and Tories in each of the Celtic nations, in the absence of a tactical alliance between the Celtic Nationalist Parties, and in turn, in the absence a visible and viable Pro-Independence Labour Movement which can count results where they matter, which in this instance is the ballot box.
 
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SwordOfStCatherine
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#8
Labour got off to a bad start in the free state. Right from the get go they were propping up the extreme anti-worker régime of Cosgrave. I think it would be no exaggeration to say that Cosgrave and his cohort actually hated and feared poor people. Labour supported Cosgrave when he took a shilling from the old age pension in 1923 to balance the books. He didn't take a shilling from the rich, but from the poorest people. And that shilling was the difference between starvation and survival for thousands of rural families. In fact there was a de facto famine in rural Ireland in the mid 1920s, which Labour presided over and helped to cover up. When Fianna Fáil entered Leinster House in 1927, the Cosgrave propaganda was that FF were Reds - something that they never said about Labour. And, in fact, it could be said that FF was a much more working class party than Labour was, and did a hell of a lot more for the poor than Labour did. And Labour has been the running dog of Fine Gael ever since.
Looked at superficially I should be a supporter of the Irish Labour Party but I could never vote for them for three reasons; in the 90s they brought down a coalition they were in with Fianna Fail over something stupid to go into coalition with Fine Gael who were than led by this creep who is a member of various very sinister semi-secret societies which are very tied into NATO who for reasons very different to Republican Ultras was essentially against the Peace Process in Northern Ireland, than in the teens of this century they supported whatever austerity measure that crossed FG's mind so long as they got their vanity marriage referendum which in itself was a waste of public money and the last reason will seem very silly- on a personal level I have found all the Irish Labour Party I have come across both on and off line creepy. Irish
people in general are probably the least politically minded of the peoples of Europe so I wonder did folk finding them personally unlikable play actually a major part in part in failure to seriously challenge FF?
 

Tadhg Gaelach

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#9
Looked at superficially I should be a supporter of the Irish Labour Party but I could never vote for them for three reasons; in the 90s they brought down a coalition they were in with Fianna Fail over something stupid to go into coalition with Fine Gael who were than led by this creep who is a member of various very sinister semi-secret societies which are very tied into NATO who for reasons very different to Republican Ultras was essentially against the Peace Process in Northern Ireland, than in the teens of this century they supported whatever austerity measure that crossed FG's mind so long as they got their vanity marriage referendum which in itself was a waste of public money and the last reason will seem very silly- on a personal level I have found all the Irish Labour Party I have come across both on and off line creepy. Irish
people in general are probably the least politically minded of the peoples of Europe so I wonder did folk finding them personally unlikable play actually a major part in part in failure to seriously challenge FF?

Yes, I'd say that's a lot of it. There is something alien about them. Always pushing the latest trendy fad that comes out of London or New York, be it condoms or divorce or abortion - and now mass immigration. The one thing they don't push is Connolly's vision of a 32 Country Socialist Republic. And, of course, they are a magnet for freaks like Ivana Bacik. Though, of course, the Trots are even more alien.