Twitter is interfering in Irish abortion referendum by shadow banning Pro Life accounts

GodsDog

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#25
And you have some cheek to be speaking of civility given your sectarian insults about religious people, your insults against pro-lifers and your crazed insults against disabled people. And then you run around and pretend that I've broken some covenant on politeness? I'm not having that, son. You can take your sectarian viciousness to the roof for all I care. It's how the internet ticks, I'm long acclimatised to it. But don't be flabbergasted that you get a few choice words in return nevertheless. The internet also rolls like that.

There's no real "12 week limit", it's full term essentially based on "mental health" grounds similar to the carnage Britain has. "12 weeks" is useful to the regime in pretending that there's some sort of restriction on it. But doctors are not going to refuse abortions when approached; that's the eventual realpolitik of this. It's all championed by FG austerity vampires, Soros and the O'Brien media and that should tell us all we need to know about where all this is going. Nor is there an intrinsic moral difference between a child at an early stage of gestation and a child asleep in the crib. The 8th amendment which values and saves both lives if is practical to do so. It even uses the word 'practical'. So women's lives are never jeopardised under the two patient approach if the 8th amendment is actually followed.


I don't use the ignore button. I'm happy and relaxed to correct any mistruths coming from you. Indeed, I'm morally obliged to do so. Countering abortion propaganda is my small way of helping both mothers and children.
That was almost civil! Thank you.
If you keep this up we may actually be able to have a dialogue, despite our opposing views.
I welcome your efforts.

And if you continue to be this civil then I'm "happy and relaxed" to politely correct any mistruths
coming from you too. Detente and adult discourse is always so much better than war isn't it? :p

You are right of course, our witterings on PI are certainly not what will decide this.

You are wrong however as regards the 8th amendment saving lives.
It merely displaces them geographically and penalises poorer women asymmetrically.

In fact as history has shown, if anything the legal uncertainty around the 8th coupled with medical people's paranoia over potential legal problems and staff members with religious views will contribute to added inertia in certain time critical situations hence further unnecessary deaths of fully developed humans in our hospitals a la Savita , as will any medical complications from foreign abortions not being reported or treated here due to the climate of stigma and legal uncertainty.
 
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#26
You are wrong however as regards the 8th amendment saving lives.
It merely displaces them geographically and penalises poorer women asymmetrically.
I'm not wrong. Abortion takes the life of a baby. It's prohibition saves most of those lives. Only a number are then displaced (a portion of which will be for reasons of convenience) and that number has been shrinking the past decade or so. The call should be for the state to furnish support for mother and child and not simply herd distressed women into an abattoir furnished by the most abysmal and subversive elements of the regime. We must fight our subjugation not meekly surrender to it.

In fact as history has shown, if anything the legal uncertainty around the 8th coupled with medical people's paranoia over potential legal problems and staff members with religious views will contribute to added inertia in certain time critical situations hence further unnecessary deaths of fully developed humans in our hospitals a la Savita , as will any medical complications from foreign abortions not being reported or treated here due to the climate of stigma and legal uncertainty.
Official Ireland has been promoting paranoia regarding the legal situation for the past 20/25 years but as I say the 8th includes the word practical. As long as there is a surgical window to save lives then this should be pursued just like any other critical medical crisis. "Legal uncertainty" can crop up in any medical situation outside the maternal situation just the same. It's no excuse not to pursue a platinum standard of medical care that pivots around noone being disposable. And you don't lower your standards because you might have confused staff or something. Train the blasted staff to their job.

Abortion had nothing to do with Savita's death save that abortion activists used her as a prop to plug the death clinic. Pro-lifers have no objection to withdrawing a dying baby to safeguard the mother. This position has been articulated by pro-lifers at least since the early 90s and backed up by the Medical Guidelines as well. The medical staff in Galway didn't know what was wrong with Savita until it was too late. Withdrawing a dying child may have even compounded her medical condition. You just don't blunder into performing aggressive surgery without knowing what's going on. The whole Savita thing is so emotive in the public square because she said she wanted an 'abortion'. 'She was refused her dying wishes' underpins that emotion. But the process of invading her interior may have accelerated her death! There's often a wild divergence between one's passions and distress in the moment and what is the right approach to take in medical terms. And this can be so for anyone.
 

GodsDog

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#27
I'm not wrong. Abortion takes the life of a baby. It's prohibition saves most of those lives. Only a number are then displaced (a portion of which will be for reasons of convenience) and that number has been shrinking the past decade or so. The call should be for the state to furnish support for mother and child and not simply herd distressed women into an abattoir furnished by the most abysmal and subversive elements of the regime. We must fight our subjugation not meekly surrender to it.


Official Ireland has been promoting paranoia regarding the legal situation for the past 20/25 years but as I say the 8th includes the word practical. As long as there is a surgical window to save lives then this should be pursued just like any other critical medical crisis. "Legal uncertainty" can crop up in any medical situation outside the maternal situation just the same. It's no excuse not to pursue a platinum standard of medical care that pivots around noone being disposable. And you don't lower your standards because you might have confused staff or something. Train the blasted staff to their job.

Abortion had nothing to do with Savita's death save that abortion activists used her as a prop to plug the death clinic. Pro-lifers have no objection to withdrawing a dying baby to safeguard the mother. This position has been articulated by pro-lifers at least since the early 90s and backed up by the Medical Guidelines as well. The medical staff in Galway didn't know what was wrong with Savita until it was too late. Withdrawing a dying child may have even compounded her medical condition. You just don't blunder into performing aggressive surgery without knowing what's going on. The whole Savita thing is so emotive in the public square because she said she wanted an 'abortion'. 'She was refused her dying wishes' underpins that emotion. But the process of invading her interior may have accelerated her death! There's often a wild divergence between one's passions and distress in the moment and what is the right approach to take in medical terms. And this can be so for anyone.
To my knowledge you are unqualified to say this.
The prominent medical consultant interviewed on TV however
said the opposite. That acting on her wishes for a termination
on monday or tuesday would in his medical opinion have prevented her death
but the law prevented this. The very law you are trying to make us keep.

SAVITA Halappanavar would most likely have lived had she received a termination within two days of her admission to Galway University Hospital, an expert witness told her inquest.
However, Dr Peter Boylan said that under Irish law this could not have been carried out because there was "not a real and substantial risk to her life at that stage".
The former master of the National Maternity Hospital in Dublin said that in his opinion the 31-year-old woman would have survived had the termination been carried out on the Monday or Tuesday.
"Had Mrs Halappanavar's pregnancy been terminated on Monday, October 22 or Tuesday, October 23, it is highly likely on the balance of probability that she would not have died. Termination at that time was not a practical proposition because of the law," he said.

He told the inquest that he did not believe carrying out a termination on Mrs Halappanavar from Wednesday onwards would have saved her life as her condition was too serious at that stage.
"The real problem was the inability to terminate the pregnancy prior to Mrs Halappanavar developing a real and substantial risk of death.
Savita would have been saved by early termination, says expert - Independent.ie
 
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Tadhg Gaelach

Tadhg Gaelach

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#29
To my knowledge you are unqualified to say this.
The prominent medical consultant interviewed on TV however
said the opposite. That acting on her wishes for a termination
on monday or tuesday would in his medical opinion have prevented her death
but the law prevented this. The very law you are trying to make us keep.



Savita would have been saved by early termination, says expert - Independent.ie
Boylan is a known liar for his Abortionist cause. He recently claimed that Down Syndrome couldn't be diagnosed until the 12th week. In reality, companies are advertising tests at 10 weeks. As for that interview, the autopsy found otherwise. The miscarriage was more likely caused by the E Coli infection rather than the other way round. Particularly given that it was a form of E Coli more common in her own country than Ireland.
 
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#30
To my knowledge you are unqualified to say this.
The prominent medical consultant interviewed on TV however
said the opposite. That acting on her wishes for a termination
on monday or tuesday would in his medical opinion have prevented her death
but the law prevented this. The very law you are trying to make us keep.



Savita would have been saved by early termination, says expert - Independent.ie
It's common-sense in the realm of anyone to deduce if they just think it through. You don't perform aggressive surgery on someone without knowing what's wrong with that patient. Someone is hacking with a throat condition but the doctor without knowin' what's going on removes a lung. That's a problem. The medical staff have got to get their diagnoses right before they enter someone with surgery. Boylan is this regime's Mengele and will say anything to push for abortion. Three medical reports confirmed that it had nothing to with abortion. Savita was misdiagnosed. And one sees this oneself if one looks at the particulars of it.

Even so, if the doctor on site has a clear idea that withdrawing the child is needed to save the mother; then it is done. The 8th affirms this with its use of term "practical", the medical guidelines say this is so. This is so even if a viable child dies, Savita's baby was dying already. What to do is all very clear if the medical practitioners are trained properly and fellow the 8th to the letter.
 
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Tadhg Gaelach

Tadhg Gaelach

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#31
It's common-sense in the realm of anyone to deduce if they just think it through. You don't perform aggressive surgery on someone without knowing what's wrong with that patient. Someone is hacking with a throat condition but the doctor without knowin' what's going on removes a lung. That's a problem. The medical staff have got to get their diagnoses right before they enter someone with surgery. Boylan is this regime's Mengele and will say anything to push for abortion. Three medical reports confirmed that it had nothing to with abortion. Savita was misdiagnosed. And one sees this oneself if one looks at the particulars of it.

Even so, if the doctor on site has a clear idea that withdrawing the child is needed to save the mother; then it is done. The 8th affirms this with its use of term "practical", the medical guidelines say this is so. This is so even if a viable child dies, Savita's baby was dying already. What to do is all very clear if the medical practitioners are trained properly and fellow the 8th to the letter.
As I said before, I'm convinced that Abortionist doctors in Ireland have been doing their best to make the 8th untenable for a long time by enforcing an erroneous interpretation. What needed to happen here was not an attack on the 8th, but of the Dept. of Health to issue clear guild lines to doctors.
 
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#32
As I said before, I'm convinced that Abortionist doctors in Ireland have been doing their best to make the 8th untenable for a long time by enforcing an erroneous interpretation. What needed to happen here was not an attack on the 8th, but of the Dept. of Health to issue clear guild lines to doctors.
The medical guidelines do the job of providing clarity. Medical personnel blaming their errors on the 8th is a very intuitive thing to do to avoid blame being put on their own shoulders. 'Better some "evil" law getting the rap than me.' I know of several examples of doctors very quickly referring mothers to England over some health issue with that child only for it to emerge the child either only had a minor health issue or that diagnosis was overthrown completely. Whilst there are good doctors and stuff, the pestilence of careerism has invaded Irish medicine like a virus.
 

GodsDog

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#33
I stopped at "Boylan is the regime's Mengele"

and declared victory for the pro choice movement
By Godwin's law :p

Sorry folks but I can no longer suspend disbelief and take people seriously when they reject
professional medical testimony in favour of their own armchair musings
 
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#34
I stopped at "Boylan is the regime's Mengele"

and declared victory for the pro choice movement
By Godwin's law :p

Sorry folks but I can no longer suspend disbelief and take people seriously when they reject
professional medical testimony in favour of their own armchair musings
Nope. You defering to some FG flunkie and planting your head into the ground ostrich-style doesn't "win" abortion activists the banana, sorry.

Tadhg cited one example of Boylan's wifull ignorance on the subject matter. He's a notorious regime flunky, a defacto abortion lobbyist and will say anything to push for abortion. .
 
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#35
Here's a letter from 2013 from a slate of medical professionals challenging Boylan on his views.

==========================================
TOP CONSULTANTS CHALLENGE PETER BOYLAN ON SAVITA INQUEST COMMENTS
MAY. 9, 2013

11 top consultants have written to the papers to challenge Dr Peter Boylan's comments after the inquest into the death of Savita Halappanavar.

They wrote:

Sir, – The recent inquest on Savita Halappanavar has raised important issues about hospital infection in obstetrics. Much of the public attention appears to have been directed at the expert opinion of Dr Peter Boylan who suggested that Irish law prevented necessary treatment to save Ms Halappanavar’s life. We would suggest that this is a personal view, not an expert one.

Furthermore, it is impossible for Dr Boylan, or for any doctor, to predict with certainty the clinical course and outcome in the case of Savita Halappanavar where sepsis arose from the virulent and multi drug-resistant organism, E.coli ESBL.

What we can say with certainty is that where ruptured membranes are accompanied by any clinical or bio-chemical marker of infection, Irish obstetricians understand they can intervene with early delivery of the baby if necessary. Unfortunately, the inquest shows that in Galway University Hospital the diagnosis of chorioamnionitis was delayed and relevant information was not noted and acted upon.

The facts as produced at the inquest show this tragic case to be primarily about the management of sepsis, and Dr Boylan’s opinion on the effect of Irish law did not appear to be shared by the coroner, or the jury, of the inquest.

Obstetric sepsis is unfortunately on the increase and is now the leading cause of maternal death reported in the UK Confidential Enquiry into Maternal Deaths. Additionally there are many well-documented fatalities from sepsis in women following termination of pregnancy. To concentrate on the legal position regarding abortion in the light of such a case as that in Galway does not assist our services to pregnant women.

It is clear that maternal mortality in developed countries is rising, in the US, Canada, Britain, Denmark, Netherlands and other European countries. The last Confidential Enquiry in Britain (which now includes Ireland) recommended a “return to basics” and stated that many maternal deaths are related to failure to observe simple clinical signs such as fever, headache and changes in pulse rate and blood pressure. Many of the failings highlighted in Galway have been described before in these and other reports.

The additional problem of multi-resistant organisms causing infection, largely as a result of antibiotic use and abuse, is a serious cause of concern and may lead to higher death rates in all areas of medicine.

Ireland’s maternal health record is one of the best in the world in terms of our low rate of maternal death (including Galway hospital). The case in Galway was one of the worst cases of sepsis ever experienced in that hospital, and the diagnosis of ESBL septicaemia was almost unprecedented among Irish maternity units.

It is important that all obstetrical units in Ireland reflect on the findings of the events in Galway and learn how to improve care for pregnant women. To reduce it to a polemical argument about abortion may lead to more – not fewer – deaths in the future. – Yours, etc,

Dr JOHN MONAGHAN, DCH FRCPI FRCOG Consultant Obstetrician/Gynaecologist, Portiuncula, Galway;
Dr CYRIL THORNTON, MB BCh MRCOG, Consultant Obstetrician/Gynaecologist, Cork Clinic;
Dr EAMON Mc GUINNESS, MB BCh MRCOG, Consultant Obstetrician/Gynaecologist, Mount Carmel Hospital, Dublin;
Dr TREVOR HAYES, MB BCh FRCS MRCOG, Consultant Obstetrician/Gynaecologist, St Luke’s General Hospital, Kilkenny;
Dr CHRIS KING, MB DCH MRCOG Consultant Obstetrician/ Gynaecologist, Letterkenny General Hospital;
Dr EILEEN REILLY, MB ChB MRCOG, Consultant Obstetrician/ Gynaecologist, Galway Clinic;
Prof JOHN BONNAR, MD FRCPI FRCOG, Prof Emeritus Obstetrics & Gynaecology, Trinity College Dublin;
Prof EAMON O’DWYER, MB MAO LLB FRCPI FRCOG, Prof Emeritus Obstetrics & Gynaecology, NUI Galway;
Prof STEPHEN CUSACK, MB BCh FRCSI, Consultant in Emergency Medicine, Cork University Hospital;
Dr RORY PAGE, MB BCh FFA RCSI, Consultant Anaesthetist, Cavan General Hospital;
Dr JAMES CLAIR, MB BCh PhD FRCPath, Consultant Microbiologist, Mercy University Hospital,
Cork.


Archived News | Youth Defence
 

GodsDog

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#36
Here's a letter from 2013 from a slate of medical professionals challenging Boylan on his views.

==========================================
TOP CONSULTANTS CHALLENGE PETER BOYLAN ON SAVITA INQUEST COMMENTS
MAY. 9, 2013

11 top consultants have written to the papers to challenge Dr Peter Boylan's comments after the inquest into the death of Savita Halappanavar.

They wrote:

Sir, – The recent inquest on Savita Halappanavar has raised important issues about hospital infection in obstetrics. Much of the public attention appears to have been directed at the expert opinion of Dr Peter Boylan who suggested that Irish law prevented necessary treatment to save Ms Halappanavar’s life. We would suggest that this is a personal view, not an expert one.

Furthermore, it is impossible for Dr Boylan, or for any doctor, to predict with certainty the clinical course and outcome in the case of Savita Halappanavar where sepsis arose from the virulent and multi drug-resistant organism, E.coli ESBL.

What we can say with certainty is that where ruptured membranes are accompanied by any clinical or bio-chemical marker of infection, Irish obstetricians understand they can intervene with early delivery of the baby if necessary. Unfortunately, the inquest shows that in Galway University Hospital the diagnosis of chorioamnionitis was delayed and relevant information was not noted and acted upon.

The facts as produced at the inquest show this tragic case to be primarily about the management of sepsis, and Dr Boylan’s opinion on the effect of Irish law did not appear to be shared by the coroner, or the jury, of the inquest.

Obstetric sepsis is unfortunately on the increase and is now the leading cause of maternal death reported in the UK Confidential Enquiry into Maternal Deaths. Additionally there are many well-documented fatalities from sepsis in women following termination of pregnancy. To concentrate on the legal position regarding abortion in the light of such a case as that in Galway does not assist our services to pregnant women.

It is clear that maternal mortality in developed countries is rising, in the US, Canada, Britain, Denmark, Netherlands and other European countries. The last Confidential Enquiry in Britain (which now includes Ireland) recommended a “return to basics” and stated that many maternal deaths are related to failure to observe simple clinical signs such as fever, headache and changes in pulse rate and blood pressure. Many of the failings highlighted in Galway have been described before in these and other reports.

The additional problem of multi-resistant organisms causing infection, largely as a result of antibiotic use and abuse, is a serious cause of concern and may lead to higher death rates in all areas of medicine.

Ireland’s maternal health record is one of the best in the world in terms of our low rate of maternal death (including Galway hospital). The case in Galway was one of the worst cases of sepsis ever experienced in that hospital, and the diagnosis of ESBL septicaemia was almost unprecedented among Irish maternity units.

It is important that all obstetrical units in Ireland reflect on the findings of the events in Galway and learn how to improve care for pregnant women. To reduce it to a polemical argument about abortion may lead to more – not fewer – deaths in the future. – Yours, etc,

Dr JOHN MONAGHAN, DCH FRCPI FRCOG Consultant Obstetrician/Gynaecologist, Portiuncula, Galway;
Dr CYRIL THORNTON, MB BCh MRCOG, Consultant Obstetrician/Gynaecologist, Cork Clinic;
Dr EAMON Mc GUINNESS, MB BCh MRCOG, Consultant Obstetrician/Gynaecologist, Mount Carmel Hospital, Dublin;
Dr TREVOR HAYES, MB BCh FRCS MRCOG, Consultant Obstetrician/Gynaecologist, St Luke’s General Hospital, Kilkenny;
Dr CHRIS KING, MB DCH MRCOG Consultant Obstetrician/ Gynaecologist, Letterkenny General Hospital;
Dr EILEEN REILLY, MB ChB MRCOG, Consultant Obstetrician/ Gynaecologist, Galway Clinic;
Prof JOHN BONNAR, MD FRCPI FRCOG, Prof Emeritus Obstetrics & Gynaecology, Trinity College Dublin;
Prof EAMON O’DWYER, MB MAO LLB FRCPI FRCOG, Prof Emeritus Obstetrics & Gynaecology, NUI Galway;
Prof STEPHEN CUSACK, MB BCh FRCSI, Consultant in Emergency Medicine, Cork University Hospital;
Dr RORY PAGE, MB BCh FFA RCSI, Consultant Anaesthetist, Cavan General Hospital;
Dr JAMES CLAIR, MB BCh PhD FRCPath, Consultant Microbiologist, Mercy University Hospital,
Cork.


Archived News | Youth Defence
Well at least you posted something other than your own musings this time so we're making progress!
Be careful who you are getting into bed with though. Youth Defence?

The pertinent question is whether the fact that there was a heartbeat in the foetus delayed
doctors from acting promptly on Savita's reasonable request for termination and whether
an early termination would have increased Savita's chances of survival.


Boylan says yes it would have

The part I highlighted in bold would seem to indicate that the people signing this letter would also agree with that assessment
 
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