Thought experiment: a new Proclamation.

Atlantean Irish

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Suppose you mean that the Ulster Scots , the Vikings, the Normans the Gaels all came here illegally. Our people means all of the fore mentioned, So stop that racist drivel and erase that poor me ,poor Ireland mentality and maybe you could remind yourself that there are over 5 million of up to 3rd generation Irish living in the UK and commonwealth who would like to see a change in the pathetic Irish view of outsiders. Known as the village mentality.
What welcome mat did any of these get ?

The Irish resisted and had the right to resist all these peoples.
2ndly - the Irish genetically and culturally come from the same family tree as these people - we are different members of the same family, we already share extremely similar genetics and culture, so any addition was only adding to what we already had in the first place- it was no dramatic change to what we were already.

This is incomparable to Africans, Arabs, SW Asians, and to a lesser extent even E.Europeans who have Mongol blood in them.
Your point is invalid.

Define what you mean by racist?
 

Atlantean Irish

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The fact is that people come here because they can attain a much higher standard of living in Ireland as opposed to their country of birth. A Romanian waitress can earn 5 to 6 times the amount of money waitressing here than she can in Bucharest. Can you really blame them? Do you blame the Irish who went abroad to find work? If I was living in a shithole and had a chance to better my life and the life of my family by moving to a more affluent country, I would leave in an instant. If useless politicians create a system open to abuse you can hardly blame people for taking advantage - especially when it will make a huge difference to the welfare of themselves and their families .

Btw, during the abortion referendum I canvassed alongside women from Poland, India and Nigeria - and saw many marching in the pro-life march through town. I would much rather have these people here than the black jumper brigade.

As for your example, I already said that scammers and chancers should be deported.
I was not speaking to you before about this....?? I was discussing with Tadhg and Murtinho ???

As for immigrants not being to blame this is untrue.
Irish went to countries we founded, built, sacrificed and died for and were rightly or wrongly seen as New World and where same E. European immigrants you mention also went.
There is no comparison with where we went and the nature of that, to the invasion of Ireland by same immigrants and non-European completely alien to Ireland, this is the complete destruction of our ethnicity. And for the demands and pressures they knowingly make on our resources.

The comments yesterday were mostly about refugees and asylum seekers and Indian and Pakistani students. But if you want to add E.Europeans - it is slightly different, but we can include them, though there is slightly less blame for them.

The rest come here knowing the suffering the Irish are under and the pressure they are putting on us, making demands for our resources. That is dispicable thing to do to any people. They are rightly blamed for that.

Another issue where Irish people who say they are against mass-immigration are deceived is if some immigrants happen to have same views as them on social issues - THIS IS NOT A REASON TO HAVE MASS-IMMIGRATION. This is another symptom of the Irish disease of low self-esteem...."well if a foreigner has same views as me......well then......"

This is a childish and unthought out view. People from around the world will agree with many others in other countries and disagree with the people from their own country, this is a fact of humanity.
It is no reason to allow people of same view in and as you suggest even exchange them merely on a basis of what their opinion is. Such a policy, eventually means the end of your ethnicity. And there is nothing to say that such people can also over time join the prevailing multicult attitude and change their minds as native people have done.
A nation must protect it's ethnicity and the values (such as pro-life) that ensure it's survival. It is an immature and part of the Irish disease to react and say "well look they agree with me, so there" - the task of struggling for ones ethnicity is eternal, one doesn't just give up on it, and pick and choose people depending on whether they agree or not, you cannot choose your family, but you can fight for them and show them the correct path.

The comparisons you make are invalid.

I laid out why they have equal share of blame here:
Thought experiment: a new Proclamation.
 
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Atlantean Irish

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Who needs a bloody proclamation, Just get on and enjoy life.Get out and see reality. Fuck Jesus and his churches . fuck the Loyalists . TIME TO GROW UP AS A PEOPLE AND LEAVE CULTURE TO THE FANATICS and Zealots.
It is precisely because people grew up that they have culture.

What you espouse is a return to scraping in the mud and existence from carnal impulse to carnal impulse - while your globalist masters do not even allow you that (mastery over your own carnalities) they direct when, where and how you react to your environment - the fact you cannot see that, already shows you are their slave.

You are neither fisherman nor even the fish for at least both have a semblance of free will and freedom - you are bait, an errand-boy.
 

Heraclitus

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What welcome mat did any of these get ?

The Irish resisted and had the right to resist all these peoples.
2ndly - the Irish genetically and culturally come from the same family tree as these people - we are different members of the same family, we already share extremely similar genetics and culture, so any addition was only adding to what we already had in the first place- it was no dramatic change to what we were already.

This is incomparable to Africans, Arabs, SW Asians, and to a lesser extent even E.Europeans who have Mongol blood in them.
Your point is invalid.

Define what you mean by racist?
We come from the same family tree as Asians, Africans, Amerindians and Polynesians if you go back just 100,000 -150,000 years.
 

Atlantean Irish

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We come from the same family tree as Asians, Africans, Amerindians and Polynesians if you go back just 100,000 -150,000 years.
zzzz predictable was waiting for the first dunce to come back with that ages ago - well done clap clap you qualify

We are also on same family tree as amoeba, bacteria

Giraffes and elephants bleed red too

fkn idiot
 

Heraclitus

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zzzz predictable was waiting for the first dunce to come back with that ages ago - well done clap clap you qualify

We are also on same family tree as amoeba, bacteria

Giraffes and elephants bleed red too

fkn idiot
So why the arbitrary cut-off?

You're a bit like the Amish with their selective Ludditism, only applied to race.
 

Fisherman

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What welcome mat did any of these get ?

The Irish resisted and had the right to resist all these peoples.
2ndly - the Irish genetically and culturally come from the same family tree as these people - we are different members of the same family, we already share extremely similar genetics and culture, so any addition was only adding to what we already had in the first place- it was no dramatic change to what we were already.

This is incomparable to Africans, Arabs, SW Asians, and to a lesser extent even E.Europeans who have Mongol blood in them.
Your point is invalid.

Define what you mean by racist?

Apparently 11000 years ago ,Nobody at all lived in the Island of Ireland. So what do you mean by ," We resisted and had the right to resist all peoples

May i suggest ,"Have a DNA test done to prove that you yourself are not a descendant of an immigrant.
 

Atlantean Irish

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Apparently 11000 years ago ,Nobody at all lived in the Island of Ireland. So what do you mean by ," We resisted and had the right to resist all peoples

May i suggest ,"Have a DNA test done to prove that you yourself are not a descendant of an immigrant.

WHY BARRET AND NOT BARJINSKI OR BARONGWE IS AS IRISH AS ANY McCARTHY

Family and Cousins vs No-Relation, Squirrels, Snakes, Hippos, Giraffes, Bacteria

The relationship is based on fact and scientific inquiry and indeed grouping and classification.
It is for example the basis of taxonomy, anthropology, genetics, and in other disciplines such as lingustics and etymology, as I said, science. But also self-evidential casual observable fact (which is the basis of science in any case)

1. All the peoples who came here are already from the same racial family tree - they were West Europeans. Not Africans, Arabs, Orientals or Asians.
2. The Irish are related to other West Europeans - same family tree, different members. Like any family with members, this is their grouping, these are peoples who are from the same genetic and cultural branch - they are geneticallty and culturally related to each other and are most similar to each other obviously because of that, whilst also like family members having slight distinct differences.
3. Same applies to all first people in Europe who spread out to inhabit different parts of Europe - these pre-Gaels and Celts are also genetically and culturally from same branch and distinct from the peoples in regions such as continents, in general. Thus the composite admixture of Europeans is from biological admixture strata to strata retains these distinctions and connections.
4. So Gaels and Celts are still a specific admixture connected to their other West European family members who also have their own specific West European admixtures, but all are still related and distinct, like any family and it's members and with far greater degree of separation and difference to non-family and especially even ethnic members.
5. Family rivalry, quarrels and fights
Every race has it's sub-groups, tribes etc. Throughout time, they have fought and rivalled each other. They are however still more genetically and culturally related to each other than peoples outside their ethnicity or race. Apply Family analogy again to illustrate.
6. Different waves of our related Gaels and Celts invaded Ireland, invading genetically and culturally related peoples that came before.
7. Each wave of inhabitants that preceeded the next wave of invaders were, again, already related genetically and culturally to the succeeding wave of invaders - but they still had the right through force of arms to resist the new invasion. They did not offer a welcome mat, they resisted and fought invasion. (a right we are denied - we are not allowed oppose invasion, it is seen as a sin and carries penalties designed to inhibit your continued survival through financial and family ruin etc)
8.After the successive waves of very closely related Gaels and Celts, who had the same familial rivalry as described, then came other West European family members, again, from the same racial genetic and cultural branch and people we are genetically and culturally related to and whom the Celts would have again also had more relating to, and further re-mixing of related blood when still am ethnicity still on the continent before invading here.
9. So Vikings, Normans, Anglo-Saxons, invading here, is adding nothing new to the mix in terms of genetic and cultural material. We are already from the same racial branch, already derived from the same source before we became distinct family members from the same genetic and cultural family tree as these other West Europeans and already had several re-mingling of blood, when these peoples were first on European continent and again when they had their own European ethnic tribal territories with neighbouring borders, where through war or even trade and marriage links, they inter-mingled to a small degree again. So Vikings, Anglo-Saxons and Normans are from same genetic and cultural source and branch, same genetic and cultural family, not a million miles apart, nothing vastly new or strange or alien being added or deviating away from that West European genetic and cultural family.

So to distinguish as an ethnic national of any of the West European family members and retain what is distinctly of one of those West European ethnicities as distinct from the other West European family members - one at the very least needs one parent whose ancestry is traceable to the distant past of one of those ethnicities that is, if one of the other parents is from a different West European ethnicity.
Hence that is why the Vikings and Normans who came are able to be considered fully Irish. The genes of all West European already have a shared lineage and source. But also only a certain limited number of Vikings and Normans ever took root here, not a fraction ever to have changed even the nature of the same related Gaelic/Celtic West European family member here in Ireland.

When the interaction and history of the related genetic and cultural family group of West Europeans is compared to one another - that is one thing.

It is quite wrong to equate and compare and even mention any such history and interaction when talking about groups who are not related thusly to us, and are from a different genetic and cultural branch, source and family entirely. We can of course interact with such people in neighbourly humanity, just as we should also take care of all living creatures, but not at the expense and detriment of the continued distinct existence of any ethnicity. That is inhumane and unhumanitarian to all.
 
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I was not speaking to you before about this....?? I was discussing with Tadhg and Murtinho ???

As for immigrants not being to blame this is untrue.
Irish went to countries we founded, built, sacrificed and died for and were rightly or wrongly seen as New World and where same E. European immigrants you mention also went.
There is no comparison with where we went and the nature of that, to the invasion of Ireland by same immigrants and non-European completely alien to Ireland, this is the complete destruction of our ethnicity. And for the demands and pressures they knowingly make on our resources.

The comments yesterday were mostly about refugees and asylum seekers and Indian and Pakistani students. But if you want to add E.Europeans - it is slightly different, but we can include them, though there is slightly less blame for them.

The rest come here knowing the suffering the Irish are under and the pressure they are putting on us, making demands for our resources. That is dispicable thing to do to any people. They are rightly blamed for that.

Another issue where Irish people who say they are against mass-immigration are deceived is if some immigrants happen to have same views as them on social issues - THIS IS NOT A REASON TO HAVE MASS-IMMIGRATION. This is another symptom of the Irish disease of low self-esteem...."well if a foreigner has same views as me......well then......"

This is a childish and unthought out view. People from around the world will agree with many others in other countries and disagree with the people from their own country, this is a fact of humanity.
It is no reason to allow people of same view in and as you suggest even exchange them merely on a basis of what their opinion is. Such a policy, eventually means the end of your ethnicity. And there is nothing to say that such people can also over time join the prevailing multicult attitude and change their minds as native people have done.
A nation must protect it's ethnicity and the values (such as pro-life) that ensure it's survival. It is an immature and part of the Irish disease to react and say "well look they agree with me, so there" - the task of struggling for ones ethnicity is eternal, one doesn't just give up on it, and pick and choose people depending on whether they agree or not, you cannot choose your family, but you can fight for them and show them the correct path.

The comparisons you make are invalid.

I laid out why they have equal share of blame here:
Thought experiment: a new Proclamation.
Yes, Atlantean, I briefly changed my username but I've changed it back now. I'm sorry for the late reply. For some reason I didn't get notified that you had responded. 87 per cent of young people voted for abortion in the referendum. Frankly, I wouldn't mind shipping a lot of them off to Africa and taking a few pro-life Africans in. It's impossible to get through to the millennial generation here. They have been completely brainwashed by television and social media.

Once again, I don't blame people who come here from poorer countries looking to improve their lives and the lives of their family members. It's true that they put a huge demand on housing/hospitals. But why should they care? It is the government and quangos' job to run hospitals/ build public housing. It is their job to ensure that waiting lists don't stretch back years and years because of an increase in population. Why turn down a chance to get free healthcare in Ireland rather than paying in a grubby hospital in Bucharest?? It's like when people complain about individuals claiming jobseekers allowance for years and not looking for a job. They are encouraged to do this by a feeble system, so who can blame them for taking advantage??
 

Atlantean Irish

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Yes, Atlantean, I briefly changed my username but I've changed it back now. I'm sorry for the late reply. For some reason I didn't get notified that you had responded. 87 per cent of young people voted for abortion in the referendum. Frankly, I wouldn't mind shipping a lot of them off to Africa and taking a few pro-life Africans in. It's impossible to get through to the millennial generation here. They have been completely brainwashed by television and social media.

Once again, I don't blame people who come here from poorer countries looking to improve their lives and the lives of their family members. It's true that they put a huge demand on housing/hospitals. But why should they care? It is the government and quangos' job to run hospitals/ build public housing. It is their job to ensure that waiting lists don't stretch back years and years because of an increase in population. Why turn down a chance to get free healthcare in Ireland rather than paying in a grubby hospital in Bucharest?? It's like when people complain about individuals claiming jobseekers allowance for years and not looking for a job. They are encouraged to do this by a feeble system, so who can blame them for taking advantage??
The points you make about the nature of the immigrant themselves and the agenda they have, is factually incorrect.
The world's genuine wretched do not make it here. The scammers and liars do, this has been proven.
The fact you say why should they care, is an argument about why should anyone care about anything. Then why should you care about immigration?
If they do not care, then that is another reason why they have a share in the blame. It's called responsibility.
Also if they do not care, it shows we are letting in complete scum, who again, should not be here.
If a person does not point out wrongdoing and does not hold people to standards, then that person too has a share in the blame for the extinction of the Irish.

Why have you changed talking about immigrants from Africa, and Arabs and Asians, fake refugees, asylum seekers and scamming students to talking about E. Europeans in the last couple of replies?

The argument about Irish unemployed and criminals is a usual tactic made by pro-invasion Multicults.
Irish unemployed are our own people, whether they can or cannot get work is for us to sort out.
Of course now with immigration not only are Irish workers wages being lowered and zero contracts enforced because of immigration - but they are also being made redundant in their own country - precisely by the invaders you are unwittingly defending. These immigrants KNOWINGLY COME HERE KNOWING THE EFFECTS AND DAMAGE THEY DO TO THE IRISH.
Again Irish people, unemployed or criminals or otherwise has nothing to do with foreigners and immigration and is no excuse for mass-immigration. The state has a duty to protect the Irish ethnic people, who did not ask to be born but are descendants of the ethnicity.
Foreign people coming to claim the resources of another - are to be rightfully blamed.

Your points so far are ones used by Multicults - defending mass-immigration:
- praising immigrants for pro-life, making argument that is why some should be here - Pro-Life struggle has nothing to do with open-Borders
- contrasting and comparing Irish unemployed to immigrant jobseekers - our work, our jobs, are part of our resources for our people - again nothing to do with foreigners and certainly no excuse for immigration.

We can make the argument that any group of people would naturally want to stake a claim on resources and territory not claimed by another - the British did that to Ireland - are they not to blame for their actions? Are they not responsible for their actions?
Immigrants are no different, this is invasion, immigration is invasive, it results, in plunder, violent crime and violent suffering and deaths through loss of resources for our own people - both are invasions, both have the same results.

I have addressed why immigrants share in the blame and why having traitorous Irish people, is no reason for immigration or lifting of blame from immigrants either, here:

Thought experiment: a new Proclamation.

and here:
Thought experiment: a new Proclamation.
 
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