The Provos - a "Necessary Evil" which became more evil than necessary???

If the "Old IRA" were around at the time of the Provos - who would you have supported?

  • The Provos- shut the fu×k up & give me you're Money for a new Tracksuit!

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#2
When they began they had a similar mandate to the French Resistance but eventually degenerated into careerism and gangland whilst honest provos where systemically marginalised with ample assistance from the British state.


McGuinness whilst attending a banquet at a castle having a pleasant conversation with some of the worst austerity crooks in history.

McGuinness attacked over use of powers to employ Stormont spin doctor

Martin McGuinness has said he felt "absolutely grand" using royal powers to facilitate the controversial appointment of a new Stormont spin doctor.

The veteran republican dismissed jibes from Assembly opposition benches, including one reference to him as "your highness" and a comparison with North Korean dictator Kim Jong Un, as he faced questions on the furore around the creation of the new £75,000 a year post.

Northern Ireland Deputy First Minister Mr McGuinness and First Minister Arlene Foster have faced criticism for exercising the Royal Prerogative to enable them to appoint BBC editor David Gordon to the job without having to advertise the press secretary position through open competition.

Source
 

SwordOfStCatherine

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#3
My view is that they had definite Legitimacy as regards their Armed Struggle until Direct Rule came in in 1972, after that it becomes more ambiguous morally to me however I believe that it was possible for people of good will to both support and oppose the PIRA during the full length of their campaign and people did both for both good and evil reasons. A problem is that Southerners who opposed them for evil reasons still cant seem to shut up about the nastier things they did even though they were far more disciplined and restrained than Michael Collins's Northern Campaign and so cause me a degree of aggravation. The Provies' certainly delievered for their tribe in Ulster in a way that NICRA would never have been able to but at the same time they themselves have completely given up on the goal of a 32 county Independent Irish State and with relative peace rather than going back to what the Republican movement was in the 1960s they have become something that puzzles me and which I dont fully understand.
 

maxflinn

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#4
Here's a question for those folk that think the IRA was evil:

If you had lived in the north and you had been oppressed/beaten/downtrodden/intimidated/discriminated against because you were a Catholic, would you just take it, or would you take up arms and defend you and your people?
 
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#5













Please discuss & add to the Choreography...
A picture is worth a thousand words! That's like a silent movie.



Carn - Issue No. 94 Summer 1996

'Every time one writes about the situation in north-eastern Ireland, we some times forget that Cavan, Donegal and Monaghan are part of both Ulster and the Republic of Ireland. The Sinn Féin poll increased considerably to almost 16% or 42% of the nationalist turnout.'

Carn 94 Summer 1996 C.pdf

1957 - Sinn Féin: 65,640/5.3% - 4th - 4 seats
1957 - Clann na Poblachta: 20,632/1.7% - 1 seat
1957 - Independents - 9 seats
1957 - Labour - 12 seats

1961 - Sinn Féin: 36,396/3.1% - 4th - 0 seats
1961 - Clann na Poblachta: 13,170/1.1% - 1 seat
1961 - National Progressive Democrats: 11,490/1% - 2 seats
1961 - Independents - 6 seats
1961 - Labour - 16 seats

1981 - Anti H-Block Antóin O'Hara 3,034/6.5%

1992 - Sinn Féin: 27,809/1.6% - 12th

1997 - Sinn Féin: 45,614/2.5% - 6th - 1 seat
1997 - Socialist Party/AAA: 12,445/0.7% - 9th - 1 seat
1997 - Socialist Workers Party/PBP: 2,028/0.1% - 12th - 0 seats
1997 - Independents - 6 seats
1997 - Labour - 17 seats

2016 - Sinn Féin: 295,319/14.6% - 3rd - 23 seats
2016 - AAA–PBP: 84,168/3.9% - 5th - 6 seats
2016 - Independents - 18 seats
2016 - Labour - 7 seats

The combined Green nationalist vote in the South/26 Counties is 46%. 18% more than the Scottish Independence vote, and that's minus the Green nationalist vote in the North/6 Counties, when the opening shots of the campaign for Scottish Independence were fired. The growth in the SF vote in the north and the south, happened for different reasons. The percentage of the SF vote in the south at the last election, is 300% higher than that of the 1981 H-Block vote in the south. There has been a continuous rise in the SF vote in the south since the mid-1990's, which I think will be repeated at the next election, with polls consistently pointing to between 15% and 20% of the vote, which will equal an increase of between 35 and 45 seats. Most objective analysts agree that the SF vote was badly managed at the last election, and that they could have won as many as 30 seats. What the ceiling is, is anyone's guess, but anyone who claims that is not a phenomenal growth is clearly deluded. The vote could dip at the next election, but the polls clearly suggest otherwise.

We live in interesting times!

Prediction: Adams to be elected President of Ireland in 2018.

2021 General Election:

Sinn Féin - 40-42 seats
Independents - 25-27 seats
AAA/PBP - 8-10 seats
Labour/SD - 16-18 seats
 
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#6
Speaking as a Londoner of Irish parentage the troubles caused me great anguish anger sadness and depression.I love Ireland and the Irish and and Britain and the British.I thought then and still do that a united Ireland is the solution.Indiscriminate bombing surely set back Irish unity and alienated people who would have been sympathetic to a united Ireland.
 

Tadhg Gaelach

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#7
Ruairí Ó Brádaigh, Daithí Ó Connaill, Seán Mac Stíofán and Máire Drumm where Republicans of the old stock. The sort of men and women that went out in 1916 and fought the Black and Tans. But, between the 1950s and the 1960s a new generation had come up that was weaker in mind. Adams and McGuinness are perfect examples. They are the the sort that went out in the student protests in Paris in 1968. Individualists who were really only rebelling against authority, but had no idea what to replace it with. When Adams and McGuinness took over in the early 1980s, despite the Hunger Strike, the Provisional IRA was essentially finished. Since then, what's left of Provisional Sinn Féin has become a camp travesty of itself, running after every trendy fad such as gay marriage, abortion and mass immigration.
 
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#9
D-4: I ain't beating my chest, I'm banging my head off a wall..

The FF, FG, Labour & SF vote is a Pro-Treaty vote! Don't believe the Great Lie, that the Provisional Sinn Féin vote is the Independence vote, or even the Republican vote. It's a Constitutional Nationalist vote, and is no more a Republican vote, than any combination of the Labour Party, the Green Party, the Social Democrats Party, the Socialist Party, the Socialist Workers Party or the Workers Party vote is the Socialist Republican vote. The Nationalist vote in Cornwall only equals 20% of the overall percentage of support for Independence, which mirrors the current situation in Ireland. Insofar as historical accuracy is concerned, in relation to the 1st and 2nd Treaties of 1921 and 1998 respectively, there are ultimately only two categories: Pro-Treaty, and Anti-Treaty. There is no such thing as a Pro-Treaty Republican, but there is such a thing as an Anti-Treaty Republican, and a Pro-Treaty Nationalist. It's one of life's great unsolved mysteries, the mother of all ironies and political contradiction of political contradictions, that the future of the former, in the final analysis, is ultimately dependent on the success of the latter!
 
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SwordOfStCatherine

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#10
Ruairí Ó Brádaigh, Daithí Ó Connaill, Seán Mac Stíofán and Máire Drumm where Republicans of the old stock. The sort of men and women that went out in 1916 and fought the Black and Tans. But, between the 1950s and the 1960s a new generation had come up that was weaker in mind. Adams and McGuinness are perfect examples. They are the the sort that went out in the student protests in Paris in 1968. Individualists who were really only rebelling against authority, but had no idea what to replace it with. When Adams and McGuinness took over in the early 1980s, despite the Hunger Strike, the Provisional IRA was essentially finished. Since then, what's left of Provisional Sinn Féin has become a camp travesty of itself, running after every trendy fad such as gay marriage, abortion and mass immigration.
I think you are being unjust- Martin Mc Guinness was never about Ultra-Leftist waffle or what Ruairí Ó Brádaigh was about. Everything signifies that he had and has a very parochial way of seeing things. I like him but at the same time I would not look for genuine leadership from him or encourage others to.
 
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