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The Pandemic, a warning from God to the catholic Irish and the world, who reject the 1st, 5th and 6th commandment?.

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The Field Marshal

The Field Marshal

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So far your attempt to explain order has not progressed because you keep seeking the answer from within that which needs to be explained. To conceive of God as a 'natural force' is a category error for God is neither natural nor a force. God transcends the natural order by definition, and forces belong to the natural order.

Trying to explain the notion and phenomenon of order by using examples of order is an obstacle to progress with this question. It formally begs the question.
God is power without limit.
He wills through this power, the what, the where, and the when, of every existing atom and human being and its/their entire behavior in the material world.

THERE IS NO ESCAPING THIS EXISTENTIAL REALITY.
 

Eriugena

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Then I am saying there is no God but only laws of nature, how they originated is still undecided but I do not veer towards a supernatural explanation.
OK, that's fine. But who is the lawmaker? You see, the early modern scientists (Newton et. al.) who coined this term were all theists and for them the universe was governed by laws laid down by its Author. Science as they conceived it was the discovery and study of these laws. So to profess atheism and use the term 'laws of nature' is obviously problematic.

It is quite legitimate to try and answer the question about order without recourse to external principles but so far it has led nowhere. At a certain point one then has to at least consider external principles.
 
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Its not over by a long shot and the devastation to the Irish economy and way of life is immense.

The supernatural explanation for this is that God, exercising His Divine Fatherhood, is punishing the rebellious catholic Irish who have openly rejected the 5th divine commandment by allowing the murder of the unborn and the 6th Commandment by allowing homosexual "marriage".

Along with this is the widespread rejection of the 1st commandment whereby large numbers of catholic Irish refused to fulfill their Sunday Mass obligation, an obligation now waived.

The prime national responsibility for imposition of this punishment devolves on the Catholic Irish Bishops who have
[1] failed to remind their flock of their duties and moral responsibilites.
[2] listened to the advice of an obvious anti-pope in the Vatican

The prime international responsibility of course rests with the antipope who has downplayed the 6th commandment and publicly disobeyed on the 1st commandment.

The covid 19 world pandemic like all the other ones is a manifestation of Divine Anger at the conduct of the human race.

The Irish , a once mainly catholic devout people have turned their back on God and are now paying the price.

What do other posters think?
There is an actual truth in what your saying. But you see it through a Catholic lens, so you don't see it clearly.

People have turned from God and embraced materialism. They have exchanges higher virtues and values for lower worldly ones.
Various reasons from people not being able to separate God from an organised religion setting to people not fully understanding God or what that is, having no real knowledge of the divine from lack of direct experience and no real guidance to lead people to any realisation of such.
Others can't grasp even the idea of any type of God as it appears too unrealistic and intangible to their increasing materialistic minds. The human senses directed by the ego are naturally drawn to the world they encounter around them and attach to that experience.
So if the society increases in materialism and false inaccurate science then the attachment of the people increases to these things. They are not attached nor attracted to the transcendent as no-one has shown them this path, and it's not encouraged by a corrupt society that needs consumer's.
People are habitual by nature and whatever habits have been formed is usually what a lot stick to, bad habits become worse and good ones become better.

You have interpreted it in a very fundamentalist way of reward and punishment, which is the conditioning of your upbringing through Catholicism. Your style of presentation wont endear people to seek answers and meaning of their lives and may in fact keep them locked in a atheistic materialistic prison world.

God is bigger than any religion.
And truth is higher than any religion.

Philosophical truth is the core of all the world's great faiths but in the passing of time some have become more corrupted than the Others, and have strayed very far from their founders original intentions.
Hierarchical structures in institutes have a tendency to lean towards power which leads to domination and control if it goes unchecked. False ideologies, False precepts and false doctrines are part of this. Out of context supernatural, literal and fundamental interpretations of sacred texts another huge problem.

Pray sincerely for a discerning mind and things will be revealed to you more fully, and you will feel better about things and the state of the world.
 
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Rose

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There is an actual truth in what your saying. But you see it through a Catholic lens, so you don't see it clearly.

People have turned from God and embraced materialism. They have exchanges higher virtues and values for lower worldly ones.
Various reasons from people not being able to separate God from an organised religion setting to people not fully understanding God or what that is, having no real knowledge of the divine from lack of direct experience and no real guidance to lead people to any realisation of such.
Others can't grasp even the idea of any type of God as it appears too unrealistic and intangible to their increasing materialistic minds. The human senses directed by the ego are naturally drawn to the world they encounter around them and attach to that experience.
So if the society increases in materialism and false inaccurate science then the attachment of the people increases to these things. They are not attached nor attracted to the transcendent as no-one has shown them this path, and it's not encouraged by a corrupt society that needs consumer's.
People are habitual by nature and whatever habits have been formed is usually what a lot stick to, bad habits become worse and good ones become better.

You have interpreted it in a very fundamentalist way of reward and punishment, which is the conditioning of your upbringing through Catholicism. Your style of presentation wont endear people to seek answers and meaning of their lives and may in fact keep them locked in a atheistic materialistic prison world.

God is bigger than any religion.
And truth is higher than any religion.

Philosophical truth is the core of all the world's great faiths but in the passing of time some have become more corrupted than the Others, and have strayed very far from their founders original intentions.
Hierarchical structures in institutes have a tendency to lean towards power which leads to domination and control if it goes unchecked. False ideologies, False precepts and false doctrines are part of this. Out of context supernatural, literal and fundamental interpretations of sacred texts another huge problem.

Pray sincerely for a discerning mind and things will be revealed to you more fully, and you will feel better about things and the state of the world.
Yes when the lens of inherited customs and cultural norms which build community break down anarchy is unleashed. That is why so many young people were attracted to ancient indigenous tribes and ethnic sports and music they are yearning as the traveller John Connors said for the traditions that they had lost. The modern day assassins think culture is something you can buy and have no appreciation for age old traditions and believe only modern conveniences and materialism bring progress and happiness. They build a culture of mistrust by dividing people, celebrating and rewarding egotistical behaviour, as Oscar Wilde said "they know the price of everything and the value of nothing".
 

Rose

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OK, that's fine. But who is the lawmaker? You see, the early modern scientists (Newton et. al.) who coined this term were all theists and for them the universe was governed by laws laid down by its Author. Science as they conceived it was the discovery and study of these laws. So to profess atheism and use the term 'laws of nature' is obviously problematic.

It is quite legitimate to try and answer the question about order without recourse to external principles but so far it has led nowhere. At a certain point one then has to at least consider external principles.
You might like the best seller book " gut ". I heard it preached about by a saint in regards to becoming the living eucharist, but I haven't managed to get a copy. Take care.
 

Rose

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There is an actual truth in what your saying. But you see it through a Catholic lens, so you don't see it clearly.

People have turned from God and embraced materialism. They have exchanges higher virtues and values for lower worldly ones.
Various reasons from people not being able to separate God from an organised religion setting to people not fully understanding God or what that is, having no real knowledge of the divine from lack of direct experience and no real guidance to lead people to any realisation of such.
Others can't grasp even the idea of any type of God as it appears too unrealistic and intangible to their increasing materialistic minds. The human senses directed by the ego are naturally drawn to the world they encounter around them and attach to that experience.
So if the society increases in materialism and false inaccurate science then the attachment of the people increases to these things. They are not attached nor attracted to the transcendent as no-one has shown them this path, and it's not encouraged by a corrupt society that needs consumer's.
People are habitual by nature and whatever habits have been formed is usually what a lot stick to, bad habits become worse and good ones become better.

You have interpreted it in a very fundamentalist way of reward and punishment, which is the conditioning of your upbringing through Catholicism. Your style of presentation wont endear people to seek answers and meaning of their lives and may in fact keep them locked in a atheistic materialistic prison world.

God is bigger than any religion.
And truth is higher than any religion.

Philosophical truth is the core of all the world's great faiths but in the passing of time some have become more corrupted than the Others, and have strayed very far from their founders original intentions.
Hierarchical structures in institutes have a tendency to lean towards power which leads to domination and control if it goes unchecked. False ideologies, False precepts and false doctrines are part of this. Out of context supernatural, literal and fundamental interpretations of sacred texts another huge problem.

Pray sincerely for a discerning mind and things will be revealed to you more fully, and you will feel better about things and the state of the world.
 
OP
The Field Marshal

The Field Marshal

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There is an actual truth in what your saying. But you see it through a Catholic lens, so you don't see it clearly.

People have turned from God and embraced materialism. They have exchanges higher virtues and values for lower worldly ones.
Various reasons from people not being able to separate God from an organised religion setting to people not fully understanding God or what that is, having no real knowledge of the divine from lack of direct experience and no real guidance to lead people to any realisation of such.
Others can't grasp even the idea of any type of God as it appears too unrealistic and intangible to their increasing materialistic minds. The human senses directed by the ego are naturally drawn to the world they encounter around them and attach to that experience.
So if the society increases in materialism and false inaccurate science then the attachment of the people increases to these things. They are not attached nor attracted to the transcendent as no-one has shown them this path, and it's not encouraged by a corrupt society that needs consumer's.
People are habitual by nature and whatever habits have been formed is usually what a lot stick to, bad habits become worse and good ones become better.

You have interpreted it in a very fundamentalist way of reward and punishment, which is the conditioning of your upbringing through Catholicism. Your style of presentation wont endear people to seek answers and meaning of their lives and may in fact keep them locked in a atheistic materialistic prison world.

God is bigger than any religion.
And truth is higher than any religion.

Philosophical truth is the core of all the world's great faiths but in the passing of time some have become more corrupted than the Others, and have strayed very far from their founders original intentions.
Hierarchical structures in institutes have a tendency to lean towards power which leads to domination and control if it goes unchecked. False ideologies, False precepts and false doctrines are part of this. Out of context supernatural, literal and fundamental interpretations of sacred texts another huge problem.

Pray sincerely for a discerning mind and things will be revealed to you more fully, and you will feel better about things and the state of the world.
.
A real God does not abandon people but provides a sure path by which to reach Him.
That path can only be found in the RCC and nowhere else.
Many Irish Catholics now reject not only their church but also the very idea of a supreme being.
The moral map laid out to achieve true happiness and true enlightenment
Is all there in the teachings of their church but many reject it.
 
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.
A real God does not abandon people but provides a sure path by which to reach Him.
That path can only be found in the RCC and nowhere else.
Many Irish Catholics now reject not only their church but also the very idea of a supreme being.
The moral map laid out to achieve true happiness and true enlightenment
Is all there in the teachings of their church but many reject it.
Your first sentence I'd 100% agree.
The rest is complicated.
We are in an era of change in many different ways. It's unsettling to all. And People have mixed feelings towards the church for a variety of reasons.
For some the church is essential, for others they may become atheist or agnostic. Others will hold views on Christ and God outside of organised Christianity. Some will seek a different faith altogether. People are individual with different mindsets having different experiences in life.

For the sum total of life to exist all paths have to exist. The full totality of life is by divine will.

And there plenty of bumps along this road. But it's all experience. A bunch of monks in a monastery once drove each other up the wall nobody appeared to getting on for a long time. Even the Abbot was confused why he'd gotten such an unruly bunch and was he being punished by God he thought. Took him a long time to realise he was being blessed along with rest of the bunch. God had gathered a load of rough rocks in a big bag and shook it so hard that when he was finished there remained only perfect polished pebbles.
The point being everything happens for a reason, to get to where we need to go. We may not like it but it's perfect within divine ordering.
 
OP
The Field Marshal

The Field Marshal

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. We may not like it but it's perfect within divine ordering.
The human world is not perfect and there are truly evil people in it who seek the extermination of other people
The physical world itself is far far from perfect.

What this means in essence is that the divine ordering you refer to is interrupted and incomplete by the forces of evil lead and commanded by a personal spiritual force and power.
That force and power is Satan.
 
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What this means in essence is that the divine ordering you refer to is interrupted and incomplete by the forces of evil lead and commanded by a personal spiritual force and power.
That force and power is Satan.
All percieved "Good" and "bad" are contained with the totality of divine ordering. Everything is of divine will and a projection of the one source. All is one.
We live within the one observable universe and it's underlying operating code is nature, which is a singlur system. The supreme intelligence is within this, the one intelligence.

"Satan" = human ego. Or more correctly the ego in its negative polarity caught and controlled by its negative emotions. This is the opposite force to God you in fact refer to. If we have God given freewill then we have the choice between positive actions and negative ones. There can be no external independently existing dark force pulling strings if as this contridicts freewill of humanity.

There's either in existence an actual living evil being called Satan

OR

human beings have a God given freewill choice to deal with the negative polarity of their minds nicknamed "Satan" and stop "demonising" others.

Both statements cannot be true.


Christ was tempted by the "devil". Buddha went through the same trial. Buddhism will tell you it's a metaphorical story, meaning the Buddha had to deal with his lower human condition and flaws in order to reach enlightenment.
It's a pity organised religion Christianity refuses to admit the same.

To enter the kingdom of heaven we must become like little children the bible states.
Before the age of seven the human mind hasn't fully formed into a rigid mindset of black and white duality. The young child's mind is still closer to a trancendant state of non duality quite similar to the creator.
 
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page61

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Its not over by a long shot and the devastation to the Irish economy and way of life is immense.

The supernatural explanation for this is that God, exercising His Divine Fatherhood, is punishing the rebellious catholic Irish who have openly rejected the 5th divine commandment by allowing the murder of the unborn and the 6th Commandment by allowing homosexual "marriage".

Along with this is the widespread rejection of the 1st commandment whereby large numbers of catholic Irish refused to fulfill their Sunday Mass obligation, an obligation now waived.

The prime national responsibility for imposition of this punishment devolves on the Catholic Irish Bishops who have
[1] failed to remind their flock of their duties and moral responsibilites.
[2] listened to the advice of an obvious anti-pope in the Vatican

The prime international responsibility of course rests with the antipope who has downplayed the 6th commandment and publicly disobeyed on the 1st commandment.

The covid 19 world pandemic like all the other ones is a manifestation of Divine Anger at the conduct of the human race.

The Irish , a once mainly catholic devout people have turned their back on God and are now paying the price.

What do other posters think?
I think that is a mad post . utterly mad and shirking the responsabilities of man and woman by placing it or directing it towards GAD .

The supernatural explanation for this...etc etc... Gad is punishing the catholics. if that were the case , yous would be rightly fecked after all the pedophile and child buggery cover up and scandals.
 

page61

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All percieved "Good" and "bad" are contained with the totality of divine ordering. Everything is of divine will and a projection of the one source. All is one.
We live within the one observable universe and it's underlying operating code is nature, which is a singlur system. The supreme intelligence is within this, the one intelligence.

"Satan" = human ego. Or more correctly the ego in its negative polarity caught and controlled by its negative emotions. This is the opposite force to God you in fact refer to. If we have God given freewill then we have the choice between positive actions and negative ones. There can be no external independently existing dark force pulling strings if as this contridicts freewill of humanity.

There's either in existence an actual living evil being called Satan

OR

human beings have a God given freewill choice to deal with the negative polarity of their minds nicknamed "Satan" and stop "demonising" Others.

Both statements cannot be true.


Christ was tempted by the "devil". Buddha went through the same trial. Buddhism will tell you it's a metaphorical story, meaning the Buddha had to deal with his lower human condition and flaws in order to reach enlightenment.
It's a pity organised religion Christianity refuses to admit the same.
Well put
 
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