• Before posting anything about the COVID-19 virus, please read this first Click Here

The Pandemic, a warning from God to the catholic Irish and the world, who reject the 1st, 5th and 6th commandment?.

Polyco

PI Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2020
Messages
3,415
Likes
4,078
That's molecules interacting everywhere, throughout time.
What programmes molecules to interact? How is their behaviour maintained throughout time?
My apologies, I have since expanded that post so I'll repeat the addition here -

Take carbon and oxygen, they can combine to form two compounds, carbon dioxide and carbon monoxide, one is far more stable than the other and so will prevail. Carbon monoxide, when in the presence of oxygen, will react to produce the more stable compound, a very simple pattern has been created.

The huge step was when compounds eventually formed that were able to replicate themselves. After that it was a matter of those that were best able to survive and replicate were the ones which won out. One method of survival was to exploit new niches, that required added complexity, but that came with the passing of the years. Now, whether evolution is purely a matter of Darwin's survival of the fittest is an open question, but I think the basic principle is sound enough. And yes, I am in total awe of evolution and feel there is more to natuarl selection than we have yet discovered.
 
OP
The Field Marshal

The Field Marshal

PI Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2018
Messages
10,917
Likes
8,548
Gobildygook superimposed over a tribal myth.

At least OT Yahweh was a fun bloke.
[1] Without providing any rebuttal whatsoever you diss my perfectly plain english as "Gobildygook".
[2] You then try utilize your miserable and lamentable failure to rebut what I said by labelling it as a" myth".
[3] Then you say Yaweh was a fun bloke [anybody who reads the OT would say Yaweh was anything but a fun bloke]

The more you post on this topic the more evident is my earlier assertion that you are a thoroughly confused individual.
[to which must now be added a poorly informed and Biblically illiterate fellow].
 

gerhard dengler

Moderator
Joined
Sep 6, 2018
Messages
4,608
Likes
6,274
My apologies, I have since expanded that post so I'll repeat the addition here -

Take carbon and oxygen, they can combine to form two compounds, carbon dioxide and carbon monoxide, one is far more stable than the other and so will prevail. Carbon monoxide, when in the presence of oxygen, will react to produce the more stable compound, a very simple pattern has been created.

The huge step was when compounds eventually formed that were able to replicate themselves. After that it was a matter of those that were best able to survive and replicate were the ones which won out. One method of survival was to exploit new niches, that required added complexity, but that came with the passing of the years. Now, whether evolution is purely a matter of Darwin's survival of the fittest is an open question, but I think the basic principle is sound enough. And yes, I am in total awe of evolution and feel there is more to natuarl selection than we have yet discovered.
All well and good.

We know that elements bond to make compounds.

But what created the elements? What created the law governing the behaviour of the elements to bond? What maintains that the law which bonds elements here on Earth operates exactly the same way in other parts of the Universe?

Order answers these questions. Order shows that the element we called hydrogen and which exists here on Earth now is the exact same Hydrogen format which existed at the moment of creation. It is no different. It didn't evolve or change, throughout 14 billion years.
 

Polyco

PI Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2020
Messages
3,415
Likes
4,078
All well and good.

We know that elements bond to make compounds.

But what created the elements? What created the law governing the behaviour of the elements to bond? What maintains that the law which bonds elements here on Earth operates exactly the same way in other parts of the Universe?

Order answers these questions. Order shows that the element we called hydrogen and which exists here on Earth now is the exact same Hydrogen format which existed at the moment of creation. It is no different. It didn't evolve or change, throughout 14 billion years.
Which is exactly the question I have already alluded to and rather suspect that whatever natural force it was it is not now getting pissy because we don't go to church or have a shag before tying the knot.
 

gerhard dengler

Moderator
Joined
Sep 6, 2018
Messages
4,608
Likes
6,274
gerhard dengler said:
All well and good.

We know that elements bond to make compounds.

But what created the elements? What created the law governing the behaviour of the elements to bond? What maintains that the law which bonds elements here on Earth operates exactly the same way in other parts of the Universe?

Order answers these questions. Order shows that the element we called hydrogen and which exists here on Earth now is the exact same Hydrogen format which existed at the moment of creation. It is no different. It didn't evolve or change, throughout 14 billion years.

Which is exactly the question I have already alluded to and rather suspect that whatever natural force it was it is not now getting pissy because we don't go to church or have a shag before tying the knot.
You answered the question by telling us that everything exists and everything behaves through Chance only.
 

Polyco

PI Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2020
Messages
3,415
Likes
4,078
You answered the question by telling us that everything exists and everything behaves through Chance only.
I was never quite that exclusive, I noted in post 88 above -

So your question should be not who created the world and us but from where came the basic elements and the pattern of their interaction?
 

gerhard dengler

Moderator
Joined
Sep 6, 2018
Messages
4,608
Likes
6,274
I was never quite that exclusive, I noted in post 88 above -

So your question should be not who created the world and us but from where came the basic elements and the pattern of their interaction?
Your explanation is that it happened - all of it happened - by Chance only.

I think that the degree of order displayed throughout time and throughout the Universe, proves otherwise.
 

Eriugena

PI Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2020
Messages
3,733
Likes
5,118
Which is exactly the question I have already alluded to and rather suspect that whatever natural force it was it is not now getting pissy because we don't go to church or have a shag before tying the knot.
So far your attempt to explain order has not progressed because you keep seeking the answer from within that which needs to be explained. To conceive of God as a 'natural force' is a category error for God is neither natural nor a force. God transcends the natural order by definition, and forces belong to the natural order.

Trying to explain the notion and phenomenon of order by using examples of order is an obstacle to progress with this question. It formally begs the question.
 

Polyco

PI Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2020
Messages
3,415
Likes
4,078
Your explanation is that it happened - all of it happened - by Chance only.

I think that the degree of order displayed throughout time and throughout the Universe, proves otherwise.
At this point we are starting to go round in circles so I suggest we agree that we differ on the matter.
 

Polyco

PI Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2020
Messages
3,415
Likes
4,078
So far your attempt to explain order has not progressed because you keep seeking the answer from within that which needs to be explained. To conceive of God as a 'natural force' is a category error for God is neither natural nor a force. God transcends the natural order by definition, and forces belong to the natural order.

Trying to explain the notion and phenomenon of order by using examples of order is an obstacle to progress with this question. It formally begs the question.
Then I am saying there is no God but only laws of nature, how they originated is still undecided but I do not veer towards a supernatural explanation.
 
Top Bottom