Hot The National Party's 9 Principles

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#85
If the aim of the party is to spell out their agenda, but that agenda is guaranteed to never get them elected, then they need to change their agenda or shut up shop.

Look at the referendums we have had on
  • Abortion
  • Citizenship
  • Same-Sex marriage
  • Articles 2 & 3

These have all been passed by a vast majority of Irish voters.
It's not even close.
I dare say divorce would pass by close to 90% today, as will the forthcoming blasphemy referendum.

My issue isn't the fact that the party has other agendas, it's that they are so wholly and blatantly out of touch.
That's the absolute beauty of referendums, it provides such a pure, clear cut example of where public opinion lies.
You don't even have to guess or commission surveys !

For any party now to say they will not enact laws on abortion is absolute poison.
All they have to say is ''Although not personally in favour of abortion, I respect the will of the people and feel constitutionally bound to enact the result of the referendum''.

But Barrett is so fundamentalist and dogmatic in his approach, he cannot help but make himself instantly unelectable.
And if you can't get elected, you're completely ineffectual.
As I said, he'd be better off staying at home on the sofa.
Basically you would prefer a party with no principles, looking to polls of the moron public to guide policy?
 
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#86
It amuses me people expending so much sweat about parties that are unelectable. Unelectable parties have been part of the democratic landscape since democracy was a thing.

Barrett is Ireland's Farrakhan, essentially. Too hot for elections but someone needs to be the preacher that rustles feathers with some Dan Breen oratory. There's a slot in every society for this.

The problem with the parties who are positioning themselves to get elected is that both Irexit and Renua lack the Trump/farrage magic. They lack a leader with the Trump light touch that would disarm accumulated accusations of "racism" from the press. They have knowledgeable, articulate people but that in of itself isn't enough for people to give themselves 'permission' to vote for them.


It's fortunate the 'soft' elections, the local and Euro elections are coming up next year. We'll know then what space the Irish people are in in respect to these parties.
 
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#87
It amuses me people expending so much sweat about parties that are unelectable. Unelectable parties have been part of the democratic landscape since democracy was a thing.

Barrett is Ireland's Farrakhan, essentially. Too hot for elections but someone needs to be the preacher that rustles feathers with some Dan Breen oratory. There's a slot in every society for this.

The problem with the parties who are positioning themselves to get elected is that both Irexit and Renua lack the Trump/farrage magic. They lack a leader with the Trump light touch that would disarm accumulated accusations of "racism" from the press. They have knowledgeable, articulate people but that in of itself isn't enough for people to give themselves 'permission' to vote for them.

It's fortunate the 'soft' elections, the local and Euro elections are coming up next year. We'll know then what space the Irish people are in in respect to these parties.
Well, I suppose they're useful in that they help shift the Overton window a little further to the right and make more moderate nationalist parties electable.

A bit like the way putting lobster at the top of a restaurant's menu increases orders for steak over chicken, even if nobody orders lobster.
 
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#88
If the economy crashes again I think the likes of the National Party and Irexit could do very well.
 
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missy

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#89
Basically you would prefer a party with no principles, looking to polls of the moron public to guide policy?
No.
I prefer a party with enough cop-on that they don't immediately alienate 99.9% of voters.
Because, unless you're happy with being a party of one, what's the point ?

I want to vote for a party that believes in strong borders.
But I'm not going to sacrifice future & past referendum results just because the leaders don't like them.
This is precidely what Barrett is asking voters to do.

Sorry, but basic democracy isn't for sale.
 
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#91
No.
I prefer a party with enough cop-on that they don't immediately alienate 99.9% of voters.
Because, unless you're happy with being a party of one, what's the point ?

I want to vote for a party that believes in strong borders.
But I'm not going to sacrifice future & past referendum results just because the leaders don't like them.
This is precidely what Barrett is asking voters to do.

Sorry, but basic democracy isn't for sale.
The straw man... Liberal homo-global democracy you mean. The NP isn't appealing to you, they don't want you. Its appealing to about 30-40% of the population. Those who were cynical towards all these referendums. You want another squishy right of centre party, we don't even have those anymore. I would be interested in seeing what kind of party you actually want? G'wan tell us! You wont.
 

Dan Óg

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#92
The NP know they are unelectable at the moment and are very happy to wait until the economy presents them with an opportunity. The have said that they are not fielding candidates at the moment. Ideally for them, Sinn Fein would come to power before this happens. They can sit back and the worse things get, the better it is for them.
 
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#93
The thing is this party has nothing particularly substantial to fall back on. Our state is younger than the US which on closer inspection actually has a much greater foundation in Jefferson and Emerson. There is nothing particularly noteworthy to be Paleo- about and I think I know where the problem lies. Gaeilge. Pearse who is perhaps our Emerson insisted upon the Gaelic language such that his poetic and politic vision was bound to it thus providing us with an unattainable ideal. For the majority of Irishmen of intelligence Yeats is the go to simply because he composed verse in English. From this we have Yeats' strange ambiguous approach to what he considered Pearse' false experiment in a state given over to the devil as ae put it. But many people dont consider Yeats sufficiently Irish and we are left with perhaps no national poet. So what exactly is this party being Paleo- about? Which substantial Irish culture do we have if we refuse to learn Gaeilge which most do? Which Barrett does...

Just a provocative kick. I am genuinely interested in what you gents have to say about this.
 

Dublin 4

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#94
These Guys aren't waiting for anything, they've no Profile & no Infrastructure, the only Profile they had in Dublin was Paul Clarke & he's gone to the heavily publicised Irexit Freedom.

You can bet more will follow.
 

Dublin 4

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#95
It amuses me people expending so much sweat about parties that are unelectable. Unelectable parties have been part of the democratic landscape since democracy was a thing.

Barrett is Ireland's Farrakhan, essentially. Too hot for elections but someone needs to be the preacher that rustles feathers with some Dan Breen oratory. There's a slot in every society for this.

The problem with the parties who are positioning themselves to get elected is that both Irexit and Renua lack the Trump/farrage magic. They lack a leader with the Trump light touch that would disarm accumulated accusations of "racism" from the press. They have knowledgeable, articulate people but that in of itself isn't enough for people to give themselves 'permission' to vote for them.

It's fortunate the 'soft' elections, the local and Euro elections are coming up next year. We'll know then what space the Irish people are in in respect to these parties.
Good to see you back though I'm tempted to warm yer Chops over this Invisible Man Fetish of yours :smilingimp:
 
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#96
These Guys aren't waiting for anything, they've no Profile & no Infrastructure, the only Profile they had in Dublin was Paul Clarke & he's gone to the heavily publicised Irexit Freedom.

You can bet more will follow.

Was Paul Clarke kicked out of the party ?
 
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