The attack on the older generation has only started. - Pensioners identified as causes of the housing problem!

devoutcapitalist

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In a way the proposals make sense, encourage older people who are retired to downsize so as to free up the housing market for younger people with dependent children.
 

TheWexfordInn

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In a way the proposals make sense, encourage older people who are retired to downsize so as to free up the housing market for younger people with dependent children.
1) What does encourage mean?
2) Are we telling people setting out buying a house that they are liable to be turfed out of it when they hit a certain age? Because this is not a great incentive to slave over a mortgage. The law of unintended consequences comes into play - this move will deter people from buying houses (as the incentive of providing them a long term roof over their head is removed) which will reduce the amount of cash going into the housing market which will have the longer term effect of reducing the new supply of housing.

Heres a message to Government - stop meddling in the free market, whenever you do it invariably has the unintended consequence of making matters worse.
 

devoutcapitalist

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1) What does encourage mean?
2) Are we telling people setting out buying a house that they are liable to be turfed out of it when they hit a certain age? Because this is not a great incentive to slave over a mortgage. The law of unintended consequences comes into play - this move will deter people from buying houses (as the incentive of providing them a long term roof over their head is removed) which will reduce the amount of cash going into the housing market which will have the longer term effect of reducing the new supply of housing.

Heres a message to Government - stop meddling in the free market, whenever you do it invariably has the unintended consequence of making matters worse.
The proposals are not forcing older people to leave their houses, It's offering incentives and quite frankly It's a load of outrage over nothing, older people can still remain in their houses If they choose to do so.

My parents are retiring next year and as myself and my sister have long fled the family nest, they are considering downsizing as It makes financial sense.
 

Jim

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In a way the proposals make sense, encourage older people who are retired to downsize so as to free up the housing market for younger people with dependent children.
You know fine well , that their would be no need for such a plan , if the invasion of third world Welfare seeking parasites was halted . Most of them are here only to milk the welfare and social systems dry. Every single new apartment block now has these people living in them , they pay fuck all in rent , paddy pays their rent , and it drives up the cost of a available property, to rent for the young indigenous families.
 

devoutcapitalist

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You know fine well , that their would be no need for such a plan , if the invasion of third world Welfare seeking parasites was halted . Most of them are here only to milk the welfare and social systems dry. Every single new apartment block now has these people living in them , they pay fuck all in rent , paddy pays their rent , and it drives up the cost of a available property, to rent for the young indigenous families.
What percentage of immigrants living in Ireland are on Welfare? Yes I accept we have far too much immigration but no political party has the guts to cap immigration.
 

TheWexfordInn

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The proposals are not forcing older people to leave their houses, It's offering incentives and quite frankly It's a load of outrage over nothing, older people can still remain in their houses If they choose to do so.

My parents are retiring next year and as myself and my sister have long fled the family nest, they are considering downsizing as It makes financial sense.
What is this incentive?
Is the Government going to pay people over the market price for these houses? (Either directly in cash or indirectly in some other means, through the tax system or whatever)?
If so why dont they just use that money to build new houses?
Or if there is a problem with supply why don't they take the far more simple route of reducing demand which should be easy to sort out in a country which currently has a declining native population like Ireland.

Of course an awful lot of older people naturally want to downsize.
But that is not what we are talking about here. We are talking about people who hadn't been planning to downsize who central planners are therefore scheming and plotting to "incentivise" to downsize.

"Incentivise" sounds like something out of Orwell or Stalin to me.
 

Florence

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What percentage of immigrants living in Ireland are on Welfare? Yes I accept we have far too much immigration but no political party has the guts to cap immigration.

It depends what you mean by welfare. If you mean they are unemployed and getting jobseeker benefit/allowance plus associated benefits then I suspect the nos of EU immigrants on welfare is not horrendous. Most I believe come here to work. But the cost of living in Dublin particularly re housing is so high, and EU immigrants cannot live at home with mum and dad.

However, working people are entitled to rent support (now called HAP), medical cards etc depending on their income. Many EU immigrants are on lowish wages, doing jobs that don't really matter if you are honest - delivering pizzas, clearing glasses away in pubs, waitressing, shop assistants etc etc. I'm sure that there are no figures available on the cost of EU immigrants here but there should be. Also there would be the costs of educating their children plus child benefit etc.

I once read on politics.ie that there is a get out in the EU legislation from having necessarily to give means tested benefits to EU citizens but the poster did not give the legislative link. If this is true, if Ireland stopped paying the various means tested benefit to all non Irish citizens then many would go home as it would be impossible to remain without them. This would free up housing and rents would fall.
 

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In a way the proposals make sense, encourage older people who are retired to downsize so as to free up the housing market for younger people with dependent children.
Except... They don't,

The 'right sized' houses people will be 'incentivised' into don't exist - in all Irish cities the shortage of fair priced small to medium sized properties is acute. The properties everyone wants. Supply is the problem - tsunami immigration does that.

This junk 'policy' document and it's dubious research and recommendations will make the current situation worse not better. It's a desperate idiotic quick fix attempt for a systemic failure of Government.

If people think the government who got us into this will be paying over the odds to older people for their home.. they have not read the document. Incentives on offer include Property Tax hikes and other 'measures'. Residential homes (sorry... retirement hubs, not yet built.. but not to worry ) for old folk - another 'incentive' for you.
 
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celticfire

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Are you sure your are not old enough yet?

This 'Policy' screed says people in their mid - 50's....me!.... you?.... need to be thinking about 'right sizing their residential requirements '.. For those of you who don't speak fluent Regime Gombeen Speak I'll translate...

Please hand over your home you've worked all your life to pay for to some of the nearly a million phony asylum seekers, three generations of East European welfare shoppers, illiterate unemployable Africans, dangerous Muslims, the spoofers and all the others who have no reason to be in Ireland or the means to provide for themselves including buying or renting a home . It would really take the political pressure off us for the horrifying decisions we've made... Just do it like good little Paddies, like the way you took the bank bailouts. And don't worry about where you'll go.. We'll get around to sorting that... Eventually.

You couldn't make up what's in this document .. The government wants to dispossess Irish citizens for the opportunist dregs of the world... The document also claims that people need to be incentivised to comply... Read huge tax increases and draconian penalties..

If people don't wake up.. We really are finished as a people and a country I can smell the Gombeen desperation for a quick fix to their nation wrecking from this document..
Yes I'll be ok for another while . Completely agree with your take on this , they will turf us out if they can . They won't give a feck as long as their "needs" are met and Irish people move on out . Sounds like they will tax us out or... imprison us for non compliance ? Question is will we as a people allow it ? By then I hope that we all of come to our senses and have taken our country back and sent the usurper home along with every last traitor who had a hand it this "gimmegration" debacle .
Was chatting to a neighbour yesterday , was telling him about what is happening in our country and what is to come . He stood there and said "ah I'll be in the ground by then " This is what you're up against , the sheer complacency , that it won't matter to him as he will be dead , what can I do mentality . No sense from him that it matters , not one care at all . I told him his son and grandchildren would be here and living with it , he at that stage had to walk away , he had nothing to add .
 
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If you ever visit Liverpool , the exact same thing is happening , massive student accommodation is being built , right in the City centre. It all targeted at students from Africa and the middle east, it all part of getting them into the country under the guise they are only studying , but most never ever return home . A sneaky way to flood the country without to much notice taken. Sure their only students , but the ordinary guy does not see the agenda behind it. Belfast is also doing the same thing , massive developments to house mainly foreign students.
I do think this is something that screams scam. This benefits the colleges and professors, filling their classes and those that are building/renting these places. While taking up land that would otherwise be used for/by those that live here already.

I am beginning to see a lot of "Homes for all" being spray painted over their advertisements and even the bus stops now.
Assuming this is by extreme leftists types, but there is a lot of aggro brewing out there, and whatever side people are on, eventually i think they will start pointing to the same things as a problem. Personally I think the primary reason for any of this is greed and the belief in their convictions and the status that comes with it among their chosen piers, i doubt they can understand the overall effects of their actions.
 
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Not to purposely oversimplify your post, but it's landlordism.

The idea of rent should be abolished imo, nobody should be renting, they should be paying their own mortgages, not the mortgages of others.

If a person can be trusted to pay rent, they should be trusted to pay a mortgage- and they'd be even more motivated to pay the latter if push came to shove, so even the banks win.
Rent seeking is another term i think.
I dont see an issue with renting in general, it makes sense in certain situations.
The issue is that profit first that goes hand in hand in a globalised market is not what you want in your property market, and it is being promoted by the state.
Immigration can increase and decrease, the irish might even make a demographic comeback.
But if your country is owned by corporations, hedge funds and people that in general see nothing but profit margins regards its ownership, you may need to tear down the system to reclaim it.
 

Olli Rehn

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It depends what you mean by welfare. If you mean they are unemployed and getting jobseeker benefit/allowance plus associated benefits then I suspect the nos of EU immigrants on welfare is not horrendous. Most I believe come here to work. But the cost of living in Dublin particularly re housing is so high, and EU immigrants cannot live at home with mum and dad.

However, working people are entitled to rent support (now called HAP), medical cards etc depending on their income. Many EU immigrants are on lowish wages, doing jobs that don't really matter if you are honest - delivering pizzas, clearing glasses away in pubs, waitressing, shop assistants etc etc. I'm sure that there are no figures available on the cost of EU immigrants here but there should be. Also there would be the costs of educating their children plus child benefit etc.

I once read on politics.ie that there is a get out in the EU legislation from having necessarily to give means tested benefits to EU citizens but the poster did not give the legislative link. If this is true, if Ireland stopped paying the various means tested benefit to all non Irish citizens then many would go home as it would be impossible to remain without them. This would free up housing and rents would fall.
Under current EU legislation any EU citizen can move to any EU country to look for work. They can stay in other EU countries for up to 3 months. They can spent another 3 months on SW, if they have not found any work yet. They have to leave and return after this period if they still have not found any work.
I pointed that out several times already with links- but I always get shouted down.
Any EU citizen living on SW allowance (note: not benefit ! ) and having spent less than 5 years in that country can also be asked to leave. If someone has spent more than 5 years in another EU country, that person has quasi the same SW rights as a native citizen. That person can only be removed under very special conditions....like serious crimes committed, danger to state and other citizens.
As we can see the action has to take place in the first 5 years.
 
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