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The Alternative history of WW2

Smondie

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I have been studying history for years, history is a passion for me and I like to research it because I often find the history we are told is far from the truth or huge gaps are left out.

In my studies of World War 2 I discovered many discrepancies that made me search deeper, I unfortunately eventually came to the conclusion that the history we are presented with of World War 2 is far from the truth and deeply flawed.

Now I dont pretend to be an expert and Ill accept that my account of events could be deeply flawed, but I would like to open a discussion where we can share ideas and opinions in an open and frank way so together we can build upon a real reflection of what happened in WW2.

I will try to be brief as possible with my points and I am more that happy to discuss further any particular points.


The Alternative History of WW2.

Adolf Hitler did not hate the Jews as is betrayed in the official version of history. In fact the history I have uncovered merely suggests that Hitler only wanted to remove all non pure blood people from Germany. When I say non pure blood I mean those who could not trace their ancestors blood to true Germans. Hitler believed that those of Jewish faith were immigrants to Germany during some period, or there ancestors were.

The concentration camps were real but set up as a temporary prison whilst Hitler could relocate those he believed should no longer live in Germany. The camps were soon forgotten by the German leadership as the war cause took a turn for the worst and the focus moved from a Greater Germany to defending Germany.

As the course of the war became worse for Germany Hitler was faced a terrible fate, feed his troops or feed those in the Prison camps and back home in Germany.

A choice was made that the people of Germany should be fed, with the soldiers coming in second, effectively those in the prison camps were starved so that Germany could feed the war effort.

As the war got worse for Germany the Concentration camps became worse for those in them. Anarchy started to spread across the German military and Hitler began to lose control over various parts of it.

The Concentration camps were one of those areas were Anarchy was allowed to become rampant and no control from Berlin was effective, eventually it led to mass slaughter, genocide, murder and destruction. Some soldiers believed they were doing the right thing by using gas chambers, helping them to avoid the terrible conditions they faced in the camps, others were simply mad with evil and enjoyed what they were doing.

The Figures I have found is the true death toll is much lover than the official figures, Certainly not in the millions.

As the war came to its end in Germany, Hitler was actually captured by Allied forces. Hitler was interrogated by the Allied where he gave up various parts of information that was valuable to them. The pay off was that instead of being executed Hitler would be allowed to take cyanide and die his own way. He would not be given the option of becoming a prisoner and standing trial for his so called crimes.

These are just some of the alternative pieces of WW2 history I have managed to put together, I will state I could be wrong as this is just a hobby of mine and I dont have the full resources that some historians have, but using my own research this is the information I feel is likely to be true.

Ill be fascinated if anyone would have anything to share or discuss from their own research and if their own findings are similar.
 

Tadhg Gaelach

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I have been researching these issues myself and I have come to the same conclusions that you have (except that Hitler was captured - Hitler would never allow that to happen). Even the Israeli PM Netenyahu has recently admitted that Hitler didn't want to harm the Jews. Indeed, the National Socialists helped Jews to moved to Palestine.

WW2 was totally unnecessary. Germany and the Soviet Union were setting into a peaceful co-existence that was based on both of them having fairly equal military influence in central Europe. But Churchill couldn't bear to see that peace, which he regarded as detrimental to British influence, so he declared a war that he had no chance of winning, but would be enough to upset the peaceful balance of power between Russia and Germany. The result was WW2.

Churchill made the situation for the Jews immeasurably worse by carrying out a Holocaust against German civilians. Night after night, he turned German cities into crematoria, while Hitler resisted doing the same to English cities for a full three months, hoping that the maniac Churchill would come to his senses. That, of course, was impossible as Churchill was a criminal psychopath who's brain was diseased from alcohol abuse.

But, even after all of that, I believe that Hitler never gave an order to kill Jews. I agree with David Irving that Himmler may well have decided to do this behind the Fürer's back. Indeed, an order from Hitler from 1942 states that the Jewish question should be put off until after the war was over. I believe large numbers of Jews were killed, but not by gas chamber. That's a myth.

The question of how much Hitler knew is discussed in this thread:

http://www.politicalirish.com/threads/did-adolf-hitler-know-about-the-jewish-holocaust.7525/
 
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Goaty

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Under Hitlers regime and command I would have been executed. I would not kill innocent civilians under any circumstances. Despite intensive indoctrination and combat I would hope some vestige of me remained that would forbid me from becoming a murderer.
 

Tadhg Gaelach

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Under Hitlers regime and command I would have been executed. I would not kill innocent civilians under any circumstances. Despite intensive indoctrination and combat I would hope some vestige of me remained that would forbid me from becoming a murderer.

If you were in the RAF and you were ordered to bomb German cities would you do it?
 

Goaty

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If you were in the RAF and you were ordered to bomb German cities would you do it?
Ha! I was just thinking that but hardly expected a member to ask that question. Yes, I would have flown and bombed the cities. Aircrew seldom if ever saw the carnage among the populace their bombs caused. Tens of thousands of corpses in a single raid. Had the Germans prevailed no doubt Churchill, Bomber Harris and others would have faced their own Nuremberg and would have been charged with crimes against humanity.
 

Tadhg Gaelach

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Ha! I was just thinking that but hardly expected a member to ask that question. Yes, I would have flown and bombed the cities. Aircrew seldom if ever saw the carnage among the populace their bombs caused. Tens of thousands of corpses in a single raid. Had the Germans prevailed no doubt Churchill, Bomber Harris and others would have faced their own Nuremberg and would have been charged with crimes against humanity.
So, you're not really against murdering civilians - you're just against doing it one by one where you can see their eyes as they die.
 

Goaty

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So, you're not really against murdering civilians - you're just against doing it one by one where you can see their eyes as they die.
I am totally against killing civilians. Yes, in particular when they would be stood before me. You know the allies had the aircraft and technology that would have allowed them to engage in precision raids using far less aircraft. But decided to use carpet bombing. In effect they deliberately targeted civilians. "Total war" as Goebbels said.
 

Tadhg Gaelach

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I am totally against killing civilians. Yes, in particular when they would be stood before me. You know the allies had the aircraft and technology that would have allowed them to engage in precision raids using far less aircraft. But decided to use carpet bombing. In effect they deliberately targeted civilians. "Total war" as Goebbels said.

But why do you think you would drop a bomb from a plane on a family home killing a man, women and children, but not put a bullet in each of their heads individually? Is is just the pure fact of not seeing what you have done? In fact, if you knew that your plane was carrying firebombs - which was a big favourite with the RAF, you would know that the people would probably have a horrible death, while a single bullet to the head would be fast and painless.
 

Goaty

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But why do you think you would drop a bomb from a plane on a family home killing a man, women and children, but not put a bullet in each of their heads individually? Is is just the pure fact of not seeing what you have done? In fact, if you knew that your plane was carrying firebombs - which was a big favourite with the RAF, you would know that the people would probably have a horrible death, while a single bullet to the head would be fast and painless.
Difficult questions. I'm sure some men who did drop bombs on cities struggled with their conscience during and in particular after the war. I find it difficult to explain why I would drop bombs on cities and not execute, murder civilians up close and personal. I would have to do my duty having volunteered or been drafted. Mind you I'm no spring chicken and would not be overwhelmed by youth, adventure, inexperience and bravado. All traits that make youths appealing to the military.
 

Tadhg Gaelach

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Difficult questions. I'm sure some men who did drop bombs on cities struggled with their conscience during and in particular after the war. I find it difficult to explain why I would drop bombs on cities and not execute, murder civilians up close and personal. I would have to do my duty having volunteered or been drafted. Mind you I'm no spring chicken and would not be overwhelmed by youth, adventure, inexperience and bravado. All traits that make youths appealing to the military.

As it happens, there were some RAF men who refused to drop bombs on civilians. They were dishonourably dismissed from the force with a paper saying that they were of disreputable moral character. Sounds like a joke, but being dismissed like this made you a social outcast and would severely reduce your future prospects.
 

Goaty

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As it happens, there were some RAF men who refused to drop bombs on civilians. They were dishonourably dismissed from the force with a paper saying that they were of disreputable moral character. Sounds like a joke, but being dismissed like this made you a social outcast and would severely reduce your future prospects.
I made a mistake above when I said I'm no spring chicken. In WW2 I would have been a spring chicken. Replete with a sense of adventure, invulnerability, strenght and daring and a belief I must do my duty, do my bit. Typical traits of a youth. Its rather foolish of me now at my age to say I wouldn't kill civilians, although even at 18, 19, or 20 I would know it is wrong to do so. But the person I would have been then would not be exactly the person I am today. Youth would carry me through the experience I suppose and in later years I would have to deal with my actions during that youth.
 
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