State pension in Ireland for most of us wont kick in until we are at least 68!

Leon Hirl

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Interesting link P O'Neill, thanks. There may yet be hope. I'll follow that up.

Edit: I just dug this out from my email records. This is what Welfare.ie wrote to me a couple of years ago:

"Under current legislation a person needs at least 520 paid contributions and a yearly average of 10 to qualify for minimum rate pension.
A yearly average of 48-52 is required for maximum rate pension.
Yearly average is calculated by dividing the number of years from your date of entry into insurable employment to the year before your 66th birthday into the total contributions paid and credited."

I presume a 'contribution' is your monthly deduction from salary. So you need 520 months salary for a minimum rate pension.
That's 43 years of contributions to get a basic minimum pension. I worked in Ireland for 30 years - hence what I was told seems correct.
There is nothing in this mail which says that you do not qualify for a state pension.
Contributions are paid weekly- not monthly. If you worked for 30 years, you have already about 1560 contributions. This will give you already 3/4 of the full state pension under the new TCA system. The old average system will be history as of next autumn.
 

Leon Hirl

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Some readers may be unaware of the following.

First: While you are on welfare your stamp or PRSI contribution is paid for you by the state every week.

Second: Ten years continual payments entitle you to the full state pension. I think about 240 for a single person, another 140 for the spouse. Approx. For Life. A good pension by international standards. Not too far off 20K per annum. Combine it with another source and you're comfortable. Especially if you are living somewhere cheaper than Ireland.

Third: A foreign migrant can arrive in this country, never work a day in his life, go on welfare, and enjoy a full pension for the rest of his days. The optimal age for him to do this would be the mid 50s. He could go on dole or disability or Job Seekers for ten years, then he gets the full pension, and retires back to his homeland. Unlike Job Seekers, the pension imposes no restrictions as to where you live.

Do I believe there is already a cohort of foreigners who have done this and are now drawing the Irish State pension having never worked a day in Ireland?
I most certainly do.
If you want to find them, look first in Poland and Nigeria.
There are a lot of false statements in your post.
First- the state does not pay your contributions while you are on the dole. You only get weekly credits. And you only get them when you are on a benefit payment.
Second- you do not get a full state pension after 10 years of paid contributions. You just get 1/4 of the pension under the new system. And the same for the spouse- just a quarter for a qualified adult. And you only get the money for a QA if this person is living in Ireland. The QA payment is means tested and tied to the HRC.
Third- you cannot get a contributory state pension or a part of it if you have not paid in at least 10 full years of contributions. If you are under this limit, you are entitled to nothing. So going on JB, IB or anything else will get you nowhere.
So your ideas about foreigners living on an Irish state pension in Poland or Nigeria just on the basis of having been here on the dole for some years are just phantasy.
 

Leon Hirl

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That can't be right. Because of my long overseas stint, I will have years of contributions in the low 20s.
But I will get a pension. 85% of the Max, I have been told. I will be penalised for having lived overseas and not paid in during those years. Had I stayed here and gone on the dole I'd be looking toward to the full pension. Recheck that figure.

Someone else mentioned Ireland agreements with countries as to pooling the pension pot. The US has such an agreement, so I could pool my Irish pension rights with my US Social Security entitlements. I don't think this will be to my advantage, but I'll obviously analyse it, maybe pay an accountant, nearer the time. Check whether this is relevant to you.

Don't be reluctant to spend some money on this, the stakes are big for those of us not on Bono or Pat Kenny incomes.
Pooling your US and Irish contributions will be most certainly to your advantage. You will get a part- pension form both jurisdictions.
There is no need to spend any money on "consultants". All infos are freely available online under
or
 

Leon Hirl

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Since there could be serious money at issue, I think you should make it your business to spend a week in Ireland to really research this. Maybe I misunderstood-- I thought you had paid in for 30 years, but then you say you didn't have sufficient stamps.
By the way, stamps is now just a handy shorthand for contributions, though no one I have talked to uses the word.
If you worked 30 years you must be in your 50s, now's the time to get this straightened. I'm not too far from your age and have investigated my own situation, having lived in US for many years. I found the Citizens Advice Centres very useful. At least a good place for you to start.

Social Welfare, Driving Licenses, Banks, etc---the whole cabal of them pull a 'Habitual Residence' stunt to screw returning Irish emigrants--beware.
The HRC is irrelevant if you go for the contributory state pension. You do not have to live in Ireland to get your part or full state pension. You can get it transferred to any bank account on the planet. I recently read that there is even some bloke in North Korea living on his Irish state pension there.
 

TW Tone

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There are a lot of false statements in your post.
First- the state does not pay your contributions while you are on the dole. You only get weekly credits. And you only get them when you are on a benefit payment.
Second- you do not get a full state pension after 10 years of paid contributions. You just get 1/4 of the pension under the new system. And the same for the spouse- just a quarter for a qualified adult. And you only get the money for a QA if this person is living in Ireland. The QA payment is means tested and tied to the HRC.
Third- you cannot get a contributory state pension or a part of it if you have not paid in at least 10 full years of contributions. If you are under this limit, you are entitled to nothing. So going on JB, IB or anything else will get you nowhere.
So your ideas about foreigners living on an Irish state pension in Poland or Nigeria just on the basis of having been here on the dole for some years are just phantasy.
You seem to have a reading deficiency. I just said you need ten consecutive years for a full pension, you seem to be denying that I said that.. You're confused, perhaps between the system that applies currently to hundreds of thousands of pensioners and the changes the Fine Gaeler iMinister s proposing to bring in.
You're playing with words as regards those contributions --the effect is precisely the same. I am talking about the system as exists up to now. This is full of injustices.
You are talking tripe and denying reality. I have an American friend who worked with me in Ireland. He was hired in his mid-50s. He worked here maybe 11 or 12 years. Then he retired back to US on a full Irish pension..
Good luck to him--he worked here, but there are people who worked double the number of years who are not receiving a full pension. That's how unfair the system has been.
And denying reality doesn't change it. If you are on welfare your contributions are paid by the state. If you hit the requisite ten consecutive years, and are at retirement age, you get a full pension. And off you go wherever you wish, even Nigeria or Poland.
 
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TW Tone

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The HRC is irrelevant if you go for the contributory state pension. You do not have to live in Ireland to get your part or full state pension. You can get it transferred to any bank account on the planet. I recently read that there is even some bloke in North Korea living on his Irish state pension there.
I just told the poster that. No need to repeat it.
But any returning Irish runs into the Habitual Residence rip--off on many issues. Always good to warn about this.

And by the way, Social Welfare won't transfer your account to any bank on the planet. Are you crazy? Do you think they run a foreign currency operation?
 
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Leon Hirl

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You seem to have a reading deficiency. I just said you need ten consecutive years for a full pension, you seem to be denying that I said that.. You're confused, perhaps between the system that applies currently to hundreds of thousands of pensioners and the changes the Fine Gaeler iMinister s proposing to bring in.
You're playing with words as regards those contributions --the effect is precisely the same. I am talking about the system as exists up to now. This is full of injustices.
You are talking tripe and denying reality. I have an American friend who worked with me in Ireland. He was hired in his mid-50s. He worked here maybe 11 or 12 years. Then he retired back to US on a full Irish pension..
Good luck to him--he worked here, but there are people who worked double the number of years who are not receiving a full pension. That's how unfair the system has been.
And denying reality doesn't change it. If you are on welfare your contributions are paid by the state. If you hit the requisite ten consecutive years, and are at retirement age, you get a full pension. And off you go wherever you wish, even Nigeria or Poland.
No need to use this sort of language.

It is correct that you can get a full contributory pension within 10 years .But only under a few very special conditions. It is an anomaly of the current system- another reason why it is getting changed. And it is certainly not the norm.
You must start working at the age of 56- exactly 10 years before your 66th birthday. Your entrance into the Irish SW system is the key to this. Your averages are counted from the first entrance into the system. So it is only naturally if a ten year time frame gives you a high average than 40 years but with a lot of time on the dole or abroad. And don't forget- you must perform 100%- you must pay a contribution every single week to reach the 10 year minimum paid contributions. One week missing- and the whole 10 years are for nothing. Not easy at that age- your health is not the same as in your twenties.

Your statement that you can get a full pension while spending 10 years on the dole is simply untrue.
You fail to understand the difference between "credits" and "contributions". On the dole you get only credits given to you by the state- no contributions. 10 years of credits will not give you anything- while 10 years of contributions would give you a lot. It is the contributions which decide about the size of your pension- not the credits.

Here are the facts- you seem to have difficulties accepting those rules:

 

Leon Hirl

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I just told the poster that. No need to repeat it.
But any returning Irish runs into the Habitual Residence rip--off on many issues. Always good to warn about this.

And by the way, Social Welfare won't transfer your account to any bank on the planet. Are you crazy? Do you think they run a foreign currency operation?
Wrong again- SW transfers thousands of Irish contributory pensions to a big number of foreign countries all over the world every single week:
 
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