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Psychoanalysis as pedocover

Tadhg Gaelach

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The simple version of Freud's developmental theory thus contains three successive phases: first is an oral phase during the first two years of life, when the oral sensations of pleasure are dominant. When the mother breast-feeds the child, the child experiences oral pleasure and subsequently sucks his or her finger in order to recover this pleasure. The nature of the breast-feeding determines the kind as well as intensity of oral sexuality. Second is the anal phase, in the third and fourth year, when the pleasurable sensations of the intestinal zone dominate. Anal sexuality is primarily linked to the pleasurable excitation arising through defecation and rectal hygiene and secondarily linked to pleasure associated with playing with excrement.
You'll notice that none of that is directed at the opposite sex as a sex, i.e. infantile sexuality is not yet in the form of adult sexuality, i.e. directed towards sexual reproduction.
 

Karloff

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Freud did not actually advocate "sexual liberation". In many ways "Freudianism" is closer to historical Christianity with the Dogma of Original Sin than the rosy "Enlightenment" bourgeois surface rationality it was attacking.
His thinking was quite Victorian.

In those days sexual activity was so choreographed and ritualised that this led people like him steeped in that to assume that sexual deviancy lay at the bottom of every aspect of psychology.
 

Tadhg Gaelach

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His thinking was quite Victorian.

In those days sexual activity was so choreographed and ritualised that this led people like him steeped in that to assume that sexual deviancy lay at the bottom of every aspect of psychology.

Freud didn't think that sexual deviancy lay at the bottom of every aspect of psychology. He thought that neurosis was caused by misdirected libido.
 

Karloff

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Freud didn't think that sexual deviancy lay at the bottom of every aspect of psychology. He thought that neurosis was caused by misdirected libido.
Didn't he bring up the Oedipus complex a lot? That's a little depraved to sexualise children in that way.
 

Tadhg Gaelach

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Didn't he bring up the Oedipus complex a lot? That's a little depraved to sexualise children in that way.
The Oedipus Complex happens at about four years of age. During that time the child's sexual drives find their appropriate object in the opposite sex. This is just the way humans develop. Nothing depraved about it. A failed Oedipus Complex results in homosexuality and other perversions.
 

genememe

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The Oedipus Complex happens at about four years of age. During that time the child's sexual drives find their appropriate object in the opposite sex. This is just the way humans develop. Nothing depraved about it. A failed Oedipus Complex results in homosexuality and other perversions.
The most likely explanation for homosexuality is homocide mitigation.

Since humans are innately tilted towards polygamy -- as evidenced by sexual dimorphism -- full female reproductive capacity doesn't require the participation of all males.

In fact, having all the males in a population competing for females is likely to harm a society.
Once you reach full reproductive capacity, the only way you can grow a population further is by lowering the homocide rate (which was as high as 50% in pre-agricultural societies).
And one way to achieve this is for some of the males not to compete for females.

There's probably other factors responsible, but this stands out to me as being potentially the most significant.
I don't see what Freud added.
 

Tadhg Gaelach

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The most likely explanation for homosexuality is homocide mitigation.

Since humans are innately tilted towards polygamy -- as evidenced by sexual dimorphism -- full female reproductive capacity doesn't require the participation of all males.

In fact, having all the males in population competing for females is likely to harm a society.
Once you reach full reproductive capacity, the only way you can grow a population further is by lowering the homocide rate.
And one way to achieve this is for some of the males not to compete for females.

There's probably other factors responsible, but this stands out to me as being potentially the most significant.
I don't see what Freud added.

I agree that homosexuality is a low energy position. It's an acceptance that you don't have the power to win females against the competition of stronger rivals. But, none of that contradicts Freud. He was pointing out the fact that this decision is made during the Oedipus Complex.
 

genememe

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I agree that homosexuality is a low energy position. It's an acceptance that you don't have the power to win females against the competition of stronger rivals. But, none of that contradicts Freud. He was pointing out the fact that this decision is made during the Oedipus Complex.
Low energy?

I'm suggesting that it's a group selected trait.
Groups with a certain percentage of homosexual males outcompete groups with none.

You have to remember that the murder rate in pre-agricultural societies was estimated to be as high as 50%.
Even bringing that percentage down slightly will be decisive over multiple generations when you consider exponential growth rates.
 

genememe

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There's an awful lot in life that's not falsifiable. Most of quantum physics for a start.
But quantum physics experiments, such as the double slit, are repeatable.
There's no way of verifying any of Freud's theories that I'm aware of.

He's an interesting character, but as a historical figure, not someone whose theories deserve serious consideration.
 
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