Pro-Life Feminists Are Old-School: Fake Feminists = Gaystapo

valamhic

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What an un-thinking post. If a mother is suicidal, that is precisely the worst time to kill her baby. What will she feel like when she has recovered from her mental disorder? Is she not likely to feel that she has been cheated, or blame herself for killing her own child?
You misunderstood me there, I said that only physical threats to the mother's life are grounds for termination. Suicidal tendencies are not grounds, but the Supreme court ruled it is. That is the fault of the drafters of the amendment.
 

Tadhg Gaelach

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The IDA is a public purpose and they lost their case. It's the legislation and it must be for a public purpose and be subject to judicial review.

Do you guys know the if a farmer owns land both sides of a road, he owns the land under the road.

We can go round in circles all night, but that fact is that all constitutional rights are conditional. No right is absolute.
 

valamhic

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I would have framed the wording in this way.

The state guarantees the right to life of the unborn subject to the condition that the continued pregnancy and birth does not endanger to right to life of the mother from a physical medical condition and guarantees to protect and vindicate the rights of both as far as possible as set out herein. The Oireactas shall be entitled to make laws and regulation to provide clarity for the orderly administration of this amendment..
Tell me what is wrong with this wording.
 

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I have to say here that I don't mean to insult the posters who no doubt are as upset at the present situation as I am. We all agree aborting little babies is horrible. See my wording and tell me what is wrong with it.

Equal is a mathematical word in the subdivision discipline. It is only suitable where the quantity is capable of sub division.

i.e. 12 / 2 = 6

24/3 equals 8. Note the word "equal". Now try these

25/2 equals ?

13 divided by 2 = ?

Now. Divide 2 units by 2 and give the result to one person, so that both units receive equal consideration in deciding which is chosen.

And

Divide 2 people ( a mother and baby) so that one lives and the other dies so that the baby is guaranteed the right to life and due regard to the equal right to life of the mother is provided for.

It cannot be done.

In the public good, it was deemed that the mother's life takes priority. That is the essence of conditionality in constitutional rights. The 8th was entirely logical and consistant. It recognized at an unborn baby is a human being with the right to life of a human being. Today in Ireland, an unborn baby is private property. Private property that can be killed at the desire of his or her owner, i.e. his or her mother.
 

valamhic

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We can go round in circles all night, but that fact is that all constitutional rights are conditional. No right is absolute.
The right to due process is absolute. The right to a fair trial is absolute, The right to Habes Corpes is absolute.
 

Tadhg Gaelach

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Tell me what is wrong with this wording.

It doesn't recognise that an unborn baby has the full status of a human being, with the full and equal right to life of other human beings.
 

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The right to due process is absolute. The right to a fair trial is absolute, The right to Habes Corpes is absolute.

Not at all. Due process can be suspended - as happens in the Special Criminal Court - and which has happened several times with internment.
 

valamhic

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In the public good, it was deemed that the mother's life takes priority. That is the essence of conditionality in constitutional rights. The 8th was entirely logical and consistant. It recognized at an unborn baby is a human being with the right to life of a human being. Today in Ireland, an unborn baby is private property. Private property that can be killed at the desire of his or her owner, i.e. his or her mother.
There is no legal concept of public good, that is a myth. The law was that the right to life of the unborn was not guaranteed, but was protected under British rule by a law prohibiting abortion. The 1935 Criminal Law amendment Act prohibited abortion. There was no constitutional right to life for the unborn, there was for the mother.
 

valamhic

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Not at all. Due process can be suspended - as happens in the Special Criminal Court - and which has happened several times with internment.
That is only following a declaration of a state of emergency ( or state or war) for interment. Due process must be followed in the Special Criminal Court. Only the right to a jury trial is removed. The concept of abortion is not compatible with either states.
 

valamhic

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It doesn't recognise that an unborn baby has the full status of a human being, with the full and equal right to life of other human beings.
A good point, but how would you amend it to provide for that without using the word equal?
 

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There is no legal concept of public good, that is a myth. The law was that the right to life of the unborn was not guaranteed, but was protected under British rule by a law prohibiting abortion. The 1935 Criminal Law amendment Act prohibited abortion. There was no constitutional right to life for the unborn, there was for the mother.
Article 43 1 of Bunreacht na hÉireann guarantees the right to private property, but this right is made conditional by 43 2, which states that "The State , accordingly, may as occasion requires delimit by law the exercise of the said rights with a view to reconciling their exercise with the exigencies of the common good."
 

Tadhg Gaelach

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A good point, but how would you amend it to provide for that without using the word equal?

It's not necessary to use the word equal. If the constitution says the unborn child has the right to life, there is only one right to life.
 
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