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"Plato, Hitler and Totalitarianism".

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#1
Plato is probably with St Paul the most important Religious thinker in our Civilization, and holds an equally important place within the Byzantine and Shia Muslim ones as well. A genius of such great proportions and influence that he is impossible to ignore or brush aside. However he is a thinker that the Post-Modern world is extremely uneasy about and is seen as a fountain of evil by many Liberals going back to the dawn of Liberalism. I have read both Hitler's Mein Kampf and Table Talk and I was not impressed at all- so I have been puzzled by Libtards labelling some of my posts Nazi, I don't see myself as a Fascist either. However I am most definitely a Platonist and I believe now that is where this accusations are coming from.

I am used to Liberal rants against Plato so I found this Alt-Right take on his relationship to Nazism interesting. In it he claims that Werner Jaeger was a National Socialist intellectual which I would object- he never joined the NSADP and his usually presented as an Anti-Nazi, he did though define Culture as essentially the Aristocratic Ideal of a Nation increasing Intellectualized which I'm sure would cause some people a lot of distress. It interests me a lot also that Thomas Jefferson loathed Plato so much. That I was not aware of.

However in justice to the Alt-Righter he admits that Plato cannot be as he put it saddled with Hitler;

"Plato’s notorious attacks on the poets and Homer in particular could also be justifiably aimed at Hitler: the poet’s masterful manipulation of the public’s emotions overpowers their reason and blinds them to reality. Hitler himself was well-read and something of an intellectual, but he was obviously not of a philosophical temperament, but rather of an artistic one. No one would deny that he had an incredible ability to intoxicate himself and his followers through the power of the spoken word, inspiring all who would listen to join together and sacrifice in an epic struggle for greatness.

Secondly and more briefly, Hitler’s highest end in politics was evidently the maximization of his racial state’s power, notably military power. Plato and Aristotle considered martial states to be superior to those dedicated to commerce or pleasure, but still second to the best state: that dedicated to philosophy.

A third difference: Plato and Aristotle put a high value on the rule of law. By this, they did not just mean the modern attachment to rules and procedure, but rather a basic law which stipulates and trains the citizens for a specific way of life. Hitler was quite contemptuous of law. (I would also note that Hitler did agree with the philosophers in believing that there was a law of nature, a law with which politics should be in harmony.)
All in all, I would not saddle Plato with Hitler. Though I do believe – in my mystical moments, listening to Dan Houser or watching Aguirre, the Wrath of God – that, through the dark mists that necessarily shroud human existence, Plato and Hitler saw the sublime rays of the same glorious Sun.

If one must look for ancient antecedent to Hitler, it was not Plato, but Lycurgus, the Spartan lawgiver. In both Sparta and the Third Reich, one has militarism, natalism, eugenics, and unabashed rule over racial inferiors. Hitler himself wrote in his unpublished Second Book, “Sparta must be regarded as the first ethnostate.” Observers such as Ezra Pound also noted the similarity between the two states."

Guillaume Durocher, "Plato, Hitler, & Totalitarianism" | Counter-Currents Publishing
 

Tadhg Gaelach

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#3
I would say that the DPRK is the nearest state in the world today to Plato's Republic.
 

Tadhg Gaelach

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#5
There are some Eugenicist passages in Plato's writings if I remember correctly. Is this an aspect of the North Korean system? I know little about the DPRK.

No, the DPRK respects and cares for its children with disabilities. I was more talking about the social discipline, where each member of the community does the work best suited to their abilities and when the citizens don't demand that the state should pander to their opinions.
 
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#6
No, the DPRK respects and cares for its children with disabilities. I was more talking about the social discipline, where each member of the community does the work best suited to their abilities and when the citizens don't demand that the state should pander to their opinions.
Would you consider Kim Jong-un a philosopher king though?
 
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#9
To anyone even slightly interested in concerning themselves with philosophy but never bothered to try I would suggest beginning with Plato, Cicero & Lucretius. Don't trust me? Here are the two philosophy modules available on the Classical Civilisation course at Trinity College which would ideally be the institution in which the ἀριστοκρατία would educate themselves.

CL2302 Socrates and Plato - Undergraduate : Department of Classics:Trinity College Dublin, the University of Dublin, Ireland

CL2303 Ciceronian Rome: Culture and Ideology - Undergraduate : Department of Classics:Trinity College Dublin, the University of Dublin, Ireland

This course focuses on the revolution in philosophical thinking initiated in Athens by Socrates (469-399 BC) in the latter half of the fifth century BC, and its further development by his creative disciple Plato (427-347 BC) during the first half of the fourth century BC. In weekly lectures, the course explores the intellectual context, central preoccupations, and defining features of Platonic philosophy through close readings of a selection of Plato's writings (Euthyphro, Apology, Crito, Phaedo, Protagoras, Symposium and Phaedrus). Topics include: Plato's Socrates and the Socratic 'method'; Platonic epistemology; Plato and erôs; Platonic ethics; theories of education and the Arts; dialectic and the literary form of Plato's dialogues; modern approaches to understanding Plato's writings.

By the middle of the first century BC, Rome was the centre of a large and powerful empire, a cosmopolitan city of immense sophistication. It was also a society in political and intellectual crisis. This course will use the varied and wide-ranging writings of Cicero as a basis for the exploration of different aspects of Roman thought, culture and society at this time. We will discuss such topics as love and sexuality, attitudes towards death and the afterlife, politics and political ambition, war and empire, literature and the arts; Cicero's conservative views will also be contrasted with those of other contemporary writers such as Lucretius and Catullus.

Of course there are others such as Plotinus, Sextus Empiricus, Boethius, non-Occidental philosophy such as Bhagavad Gita & later philosophy as well that are worth reading but those three would be a good place to start if you have read absolutely nothing of philosophy.
 
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#10
why limit ur mind to reading irrelevant dead nerds. the only writer i have time for is the great irish playwright william nugent who came out with this in his most famous play Hamlet:-
there are more things in heaven and earth Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

We in the Irish Fundamentalist Unpopular Front have no problem with our members reading, but for every hour they read they must do two hours meditation, unless they are studying sacred scripture.
 
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#11
Ha ha side splitting fun to read all the dictator worshippers competing to show us how easily led and naive they are.Oh and have you read prize cunticus by sillybollixus?
 
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#12
why limit ur mind to reading irrelevant dead nerds. the only writer i have time for is the great irish playwright william nugent who came out with this in his most famous play Hamlet:-
there are more things in heaven and earth Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

We in the Irish Fundamentalist Unpopular Front have no problem with our members reading, but for every hour they read they must do two hours meditation, unless they are studying sacred scripture.
We of the FU Front Unpopular salute you of the IFU.
 
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#16
my grandmother raised my father on a 6 acre farm in the 1930s and 40s. she kept a few dairy cows. she was a gael. she had wisdom as opposed to quotes from dead irrelevant nerds. she shovelled shit too. she wud buy and sell you but have the decency to not make u look bad.
 
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#17
Tha
Don't worry you two- There will be a place for you in the rural areas surrounding Καλλίπολις... shoveling cow shit on a farm...
n
Don't worry you two- There will be a place for you in the rural areas surrounding Καλλίπολις... shoveling cow shit on a farm...
Thankyou so much,your still using those unpronounceable words that nobody understands,not good if you want to communicate with us proles and peasants.There's a place for us somewhere a place for us take my hand and I'll lead you there somewhere.
 
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#18
To anyone even slightly interested in concerning themselves with philosophy but never bothered to try I would suggest beginning with Plato, Cicero & Lucretius. Don't trust me? Here are the two philosophy modules available on the Classical Civilisation course at Trinity College which would ideally be the institution in which the ἀριστοκρατία would educate themselves.

CL2302 Socrates and Plato - Undergraduate : Department of Classics:Trinity College Dublin, the University of Dublin, Ireland

CL2303 Ciceronian Rome: Culture and Ideology - Undergraduate : Department of Classics:Trinity College Dublin, the University of Dublin, Ireland

This course focuses on the revolution in philosophical thinking initiated in Athens by Socrates (469-399 BC) in the latter half of the fifth century BC, and its further development by his creative disciple Plato (427-347 BC) during the first half of the fourth century BC. In weekly lectures, the course explores the intellectual context, central preoccupations, and defining features of Platonic philosophy through close readings of a selection of Plato's writings (Euthyphro, Apology, Crito, Phaedo, Protagoras, Symposium and Phaedrus). Topics include: Plato's Socrates and the Socratic 'method'; Platonic epistemology; Plato and erôs; Platonic ethics; theories of education and the Arts; dialectic and the literary form of Plato's dialogues; modern approaches to understanding Plato's writings.

By the middle of the first century BC, Rome was the centre of a large and powerful empire, a cosmopolitan city of immense sophistication. It was also a society in political and intellectual crisis. This course will use the varied and wide-ranging writings of Cicero as a basis for the exploration of different aspects of Roman thought, culture and society at this time. We will discuss such topics as love and sexuality, attitudes towards death and the afterlife, politics and political ambition, war and empire, literature and the arts; Cicero's conservative views will also be contrasted with those of other contemporary writers such as Lucretius and Catullus.

Of course there are others such as Plotinus, Sextus Empiricus, Boethius, non-Occidental philosophy such as Bhagavad Gita & later philosophy as well that are worth reading but those three would be a good place to start if you have read absolutely nothing of philosophy.
I think some of your ideas are unrealistic in terms of gaining popularity with people and in terms of real world application but I admire your (and others here) knowledge on the subject of philosophy and you've certainly lit a fire in me to educate myself in this area.