Nordie Shinners dismissing "conspiracy theories" per se.

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#1
I believe don't believe in one over arching conspiracy at all, at least on this plain of reality. However the existence of "Deep States" and an interest in dark occultism among Ruling Elites I think are things that no one who has seriously looked into them can get around the existence of.

During the Troubles the UK Deep State was up to various conspiracies in regards to Ulster and it's situation which Republicans at the time pointed out very often only to have their voices dismissed as being either those of lying propagandists or paranoid loons- however HMG has now admitted that more or less that Republicans were right in some of their most damning allegations at the time.

Now however we have the spectacle of Nordie Shinners calling people who point out things like Pizzagate and the Franklin scandal either Russian shills or paranoid lulas while they tell us that the sane thing to do is to trust to the mainstream media. What is up with this? Have the Troubles thought them nathin?
 

Tadhg Gaelach

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#2
I believe don't believe in one over arching conspiracy at all, at least on this plain of reality. However the existence of "Deep States" and an interest in dark occultism among Ruling Elites I think are things that no one who has seriously looked into them can get around the existence of.

During the Troubles the UK Deep State was up to various conspiracies in regards to Ulster and it's situation which Republicans at the time pointed out very often only to have their voices dismissed as being either those of lying propagandists or paranoid loons- however HMG has now admitted that more or less that Republicans were right in some of their most damning allegations at the time.

Now however we have the spectacle of Nordie Shinners calling people who point out things like Pizzagate and the Franklin scandal either Russian shills or paranoid lulas while they tell us that the sane thing to do is to trust to the mainstream media. What is up with this? Have the Troubles thought them nathin?

Well, as we now know, the Adamsite leadership was rotten with enemy agents and spies by the 1990s. Some of them have since been exposed, but we would be very foolish to think that all of them have been outed. These agents pushed and maneuvered the Provisional Movement into becoming paid employees of the English Crown. If they could do that, you can be sure they can do a lot more.
 
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#3
The mainstream republicans are bunkered up in very dogmatic notions as to what they are about. They're pumped up that they have powerful allies in the US democrazy party and the idea that these powerful allies are in fact involved in Caligulan crimes akin to Kincora fundamentally undercuts their preferred narrative. Also there's a culture war thing were the "Pizzagate" question succumbs into being a football in the usual mind-numbing game of left-right one upmanship. And lastly in many real senses the US Democratic party is the polestar as to how globalist, "progressive" politics should be formulated, people whom someway subscribe to that notion will short-circuit rather than assimilate the implications of Pizzagate.
 

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#4
The mainstream republicans are bunkered up in very dogmatic notions as to what they are about. They're pumped up that they have powerful allies in the US democrazy party and the idea that these powerful allies are in fact involved in Caligulan crimes akin to Kincora fundamentally undercuts their preferred narrative. Also there's a culture war thing were the "Pizzagate" question succumbs into being a football in the usual mind-numbing game of left-right one upmanship. And lastly in many real senses the US Democratic party is the polestar as to how globalist, "progressive" politics should be formulated, people whom someway subscribe to that notion will short-circuit rather than assimilate the implications of Pizzagate.

I think the fact that Adams accepted money and training from the Clinton Foundation says it all.
 
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#5
Well, as we now know, the Adamsite leadership was rotten with enemy agents and spies by the 1990s. Some of them have since been exposed, but we would be very foolish to think that all of them have been outed. These agents pushed and maneuvered the Provisional Movement into becoming paid employees of the English Crown. If they could do that, you can be sure they can do a lot more.
Sometimes I get the impression that you have the same attitude to Adamsites as I have to the OO.

Yes indeed, old Scap! However I think most of the time things were a lot more ambiguous than people being out and out agents, what I think was probably the case was that doves within the Provisional movement and doves in the UK Deep State developed "working relationships" with each other from at least the early 1980s onwards. The Loughgall massacre and assassination of Robert Bradford UUP MP by the PIRA (his security were suddenly no longer around when they struck) who was in the middle of preparing a dossier on Kincora come immediately to mind as circumstantial evidence. For all the low intensity of the conflict the "Troubles" were high in sordidness all round.
 

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#6
Sometimes I get the impression that you have the same attitude to Adamsites as I have to the OO.

Yes indeed, old Scap! However I think most of the time things were a lot more ambiguous than people being out and out agents, what I think was probably the case was that doves within the Provisional movement and doves in the UK Deep State developed "working relationships" with each other from at least the early 1980s onwards. The Loughgall massacre and assassination of Robert Bradford UUP MP by the PIRA (his security were suddenly no longer around when they struck) who was in the middle of preparing a dossier on Kincora come immediately to mind as circumstantial evidence. For all the low intensity of the conflict the "Troubles" were high in sordidness all round.

I would say the Adamsites and the OO are two cheeks of the same arse (if you'll excuse my French). Yes, Scap was a tout, no doubt about it - as was Donaldson. I don't think they were alone by any means. And Gerry and Marty might as well have been touts - as they did just what the enemy would have wanted a tout to do.
 
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#7
I would say the Adamsites and the OO are two cheeks of the same arse (if you'll excuse my French). Yes, Scap was a tout, no doubt about it - as was Donaldson. I don't think they were alone by any means. And Gerry and Marty might as well have been touts - as they did just what the enemy would have wanted a tout to do.
The way I see essentially was that they had two enemies- the OO and the UK State who though it is hard for a lot of people from CNR and/or Southern backgrounds to believe where actually often at logger heads. Now they essentially defeated their first enemy and could have trashed them but they didn't want to trash them outside of getting basic tribal vindication (being invited to the Windsor pretender's party was in part that to Coco) and advancement, they thought that after their second enemy had put manners on their first that they would unite with them against their first which hasn't exactly worked now has it?

The Troubles were in my childhood and not my teens, if they were in my teens I might see things differently but me as things stand at the moment Norn Iron politics seems to grow more absurd and meaningless by the day. I care deeply about Ulster, but I'm not sure I have any actual love for the place.
 

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#8
The way I see essentially was that they had two enemies- the OO and the UK State who though it is hard for a lot of people from CNR and/or Southern backgrounds to believe where actually often at logger heads. Now they essentially defeated their first enemy and could have trashed them but they didn't want to trash them outside of getting basic tribal vindication (being invited to the Windsor pretender's party was in part that to Coco) and advancement, they thought that after their second enemy had put manners on their first that they would unite with them against their first which hasn't exactly worked now has it?

The Troubles were in my childhood and not my teens, if they were in my teens I might see things differently but me as things stand at the moment Norn Iron politics seems to grow more absurd and meaningless by the day. I care deeply about Ulster, but I'm not sure I have any actual love for the place.

Ulster has been sidelined for the moment by events in Scotland. Nothing is going to happen until Scotland gets its independence. That being the case, Stormont politics is likely to get ever more comical and irrelevant - and it's pretty comical and irrelevant now.
 
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#9
The mainstream republicans are bunkered up in very dogmatic notions as to what they are about. They're pumped up that they have powerful allies in the US democrazy party and the idea that these powerful allies are in fact involved in Caligulan crimes akin to Kincora fundamentally undercuts their preferred narrative. Also there's a culture war thing were the "Pizzagate" question succumbs into being a football in the usual mind-numbing game of left-right one upmanship. And lastly in many real senses the US Democratic party is the polestar as to how globalist, "progressive" politics should be formulated, people whom someway subscribe to that notion will short-circuit rather than assimilate the implications of Pizzagate.
That makes a lot of sense.

The thing is that while we all know that Unionism/Loyalism is pretty wretched stuff Irish Republicanism could have developed into something like a Pan-Celtic version of Dugin's Eurasianism at best or at least something similar to Syrian Social National Party but instead choose as it's model for the post-Troubles era the Soft Left of the British Labour Party and even worse possibly as you suggest the US Democratic Party!
 

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#10
That makes a lot of sense.

The thing is that while we all know that Unionism/Loyalism is pretty wretched stuff Irish Republicanism could have developed into something like a Pan-Celtic version of Dugin's Eurasianism at best or at least something similar to Syrian Social National Party but instead choose as it's model for the post-Troubles era the Soft Left of the British Labour Party and even worse possibly as you suggest the US Democratic Party!

That's the great tragedy. The RM was the one organisation in Ireland that had any potential to do or think anything worthwhile - and Adams brought it to the Hillary Clinton Foundation.
 
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