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Ire-land

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I believe in the death penalty for murder. I also believe in it for other things under certain circumstances. I do think that people do things against society that give society every right to kill them. I don't think just because people had a rough upbringing that makes them scum- but it could be part of it. Plenty of people have had cushy upbringings and even with a lot of morality and went on to become scum. I'm just saying that it isn't an either/or situation necessarily, it can be a both/and one as well.
However my major concern is the right of people of even vaguely good will to law and order whatever their economic status and that isn't happening.
Are drug dealers not effectively murderers in their disregard for the human wellbeing and life of their consumers?
If these criminals are caught, the state gives them a year or two in cushy prison, while their victims go on suffering for their lifetimes, or worse, die early.

I certainly don't think that people who had a rough upbringing are scum- why would you say that? It's certainly not an either/or situation, I don't think I was saying that.

Adults who grow up and choose to deal drugs are scum, imo, maybe that's too simplistic a view, I don't know. But I do know that I grew up in a rough part of Dublin, in not great circumstances, and chose not to become a criminal drug dealer because I knew instinctively that it was wrong.
 

SwordOfStCatherine

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Are drug dealers not effectively murderers in their disregard for the human wellbeing and life of their consumers?
If these criminals are caught, the state gives them a year or two in cushy prison, while their victims go on suffering for their lifetimes, or worse, die early.

I certainly don't think that people who had a rough upbringing are scum- why would you say that? It's certainly not an either/or situation, I don't think I was saying that.

Adults who grow up and choose to deal drugs are scum, imo, maybe that's too simplistic a view, I don't know. But I do know that I grew up in a rough part of Dublin, in not great circumstances, and chose not to become a criminal drug dealer because I knew instinctively that it was wrong.
Of course they are scum- I'm not arguing with that- but some scum can be made not scum.

For a significant part of my childhood my dad was jail for battering someone unjustly and badly.
 

Ire-land

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Of course they are scum- I'm not arguing with that- but some scum can be made not scum.

For a significant part of my childhood my dad was jail for battering someone unjustly and badly.
Some scum can be made not scum alright, but most scum can't imo.

I didn't know that about your Dad, I really am sorry to hear that. But tbh, I can't comment on his story because I don't know the score.
 

Heraclitus

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Are drug dealers not effectively murderers in their disregard for the human wellbeing and life of their consumers?
If these criminals are caught, the state gives them a year or two in cushy prison, while their victims go on suffering for their lifetimes, or worse, die early.

I certainly don't think that people who had a rough upbringing are scum- why would you say that? It's certainly not an either/or situation, I don't think I was saying that.

Adults who grow up and choose to deal drugs are scum, imo, maybe that's too simplistic a view, I don't know. But I do know that I grew up in a rough part of Dublin, in not great circumstances, and chose not to become a criminal drug dealer because I knew instinctively that it was wrong.
You could apply the same argument to the liquor industry, and perhaps even vendors of fast food. Alcohol abuse and overeating kill far more people than illegal drugs.

No one puts a gun to a person's head and makes them ingest drugs. In any case, over the next few years the darkweb will seriously upend the traditional business model of drug dealers.
http://www.economist.com/news/international/21702176-drug-trade-moving-street-online-cryptomarkets-forced-compete

Online drug markets are part of the “dark web”: sites only accessible through browsers such as Tor, which route communications via several computers and layers of encryption, making them almost impossible for law enforcement to track. Buyers and sellers make contact using e-mail providers such as Sigaint, a secure dark-web service, and encryption software such as Pretty Good Privacy (PGP). They settle up in bitcoin, a digital currency that can be exchanged for the old-fashioned sort and that offers near-anonymity during a deal.
 

Ire-land

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You could apply the same argument to the liquor industry, and perhaps even vendors of fast food. Alcohol abuse and overeating kill far more people than illegal drugs.

No one puts a gun to a person's head and makes them ingest drugs. In any case, over the next few years the darkweb will seriously upend the traditional business model of drug dealers.
http://www.economist.com/news/international/21702176-drug-trade-moving-street-online-cryptomarkets-forced-compete
I could, but I wouldn't be so stupid.

I'm not inclined to think that chips are as dangerous as heroin.
 

Heraclitus

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I could, but I wouldn't be so stupid.

I'm not inclined to think that chips are as dangerous as heroin.
Of course not. And I'm not suggesting that smack should be sold over the counter of your local centra. But the whole "war on drugs" has been a complete and utter failure.

Prohibition is the product of 20th century utopian thing. Politicians during this era seriously believed they could solve societies problems at the stroke of a pen. The unintended consequences of their "solutions" were often worse than the perceived problem itself.
 

Ire-land

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Of course not. And I'm not suggesting that smack should be sold over the counter of your local centra. But the whole "war on drugs" has been a complete and utter failure.

Prohibition is the product of 20th century utopian thing. Politicians during this era seriously believed they could solve societies problems at the stroke of a pen. The unintended consequences of their "solutions" were often worse than the perceived problem itself.
So are we debating prohibition now?
 
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