Hot Leftism, The Left, Cultural Marxism, "Actual" Marxism and the Alt-Right

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#1
I must admit to finding this stuff quite confusing. I had always considered myself Left-wing, but the recent position of parties and groups on Left has me quite at a loss to continue defining myself as such. It is not so much their economic analysis rather their lack of any national or traditional basis. For example with Corbyn's Labour, I am very attracted to his reversal of privatization of transport and NHS etc, however his support for the EU and his failure to take mass migration seriously, leave me very cold toward him. He seems to think that British people are anybody who can pitch up on the island of GB, and if Luton becomes colder version of Lahore, that's fine, for a Labour government will run the buses and provide a new community center. Yet they claim (in this case Corbyn Labout/Momentum) they are Left. Are they right, and I am wrong.

I can see that NGO/ shadow state groups, like Amnesty International and Oxfam, MSF etc are working for a "general good", maybe could be said to be following Gramsci or Alinksy approach, that if the heights of government cannot be captured, then a long march through the institutions can capture the culture of a state and the population brought to support them. Many will claim this is globalism, but is it a Marxist style spread of a world revolution? Something that Trotsky would have supported if he was still around? I, again, find myself in strong sympathy for the nation state. Even sympathetic for the English to find their country's institutions swamped by people who have no regard for them or way of life (many will say they deserve no better)

When I look at US politics, the Alt-Right seem to have good analysis of cultural problem that the SJW and the LGBT lobby are creating there. I watch Stefan Molyeaux on Youtube alot and know that he is a Libertarian, and find his take on economics tough to stomach, but he presents in a very rational and can be very convincing. The extremes of this analysis leads to a conclusion that the Left view white people as the problem and the sooner they are removed the happier the world be. And I can see that in terms of previous wars and imperialism they have a point. Can the SJW & LGBT agenda be considered left, as it seems that it too is Gramsci/Alinsky in it's intent to destroy the patriarchal/capitalist/ imperialist societies.

Even when it comes to the war in Syria, I read this recently on the page of Gearoid O'Colmain who came to speak to anti- war rally. I respect his work very much.




Gearóid Ó Colmáin

October 8 at 8:46pm ·

I was invited by ShannonWatch, an Irish 'peace' organisation, to give a talk at a seminar about NATO's wars. I was delighted to participate in such an event and was going to talk about Afghanistan, Yugoslavia, Rwanda, Libya, Syria and many more countries, explaining NATO's geopolitical strategies and ambitions. When I arrived at the event, I was told by the organiser that I could not speak as he had heard I was "anti-semitic" and "homophobic". He had never read anything I wrote! He said organisations ShannonWatch are affiliated with intervened and asked that I be prevented from speaking. Amnesty International and the Irish Anti-War movement are among the affiliates. In 2011, the Irish anti-war movement supported the NATO-backed terrorists in Libya. They continue to back the terrorists in Syria. As for Amnesty International, they are the public relations whores of fascism. Hardly surprising, therefore, that they would want to prevent me from informing some of the genuine and good people who were there today. Forget about the buffoons of the far right, the real fascists today are the self-righteous, cowardly, ignorant, smug, reactionary, petty-bourgeois leftists! They make me sick!



So Is there even a Left anymore? Is this stuff in anyway related to Marx? Or do the old labels even apply anymore? Is the 21st century shaping up into what Dugin would say Liberalism vs Traditional, or Globalism vs Nationalism. Is there a place for "real" marxism?

I have probably made lots of of mistakes in this, regarding how i interpret these thinkers and ideologies to be about. Perhaps posters could offer clarity?
 
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#2
Brilliant OP. A lot of us actually feel that way.

In think what we are seeing is Right and Left individualism and nihilism merge together while there has been a coming together of the Communitarian Left and Right in Russia and France to a large degree which I see as very positive. Irish Republicanism could have naturally flowed into something similar but instead in choose a very different route- I dont why and I have difficulty working out why.
 
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#4
There is actually a long tradition of "Reactionary Socialism" going back to the English Christian Socialists of the 19 th and early 20 th centuries, Georges Sorel and Les Camelots Du Roi in France as well as Russian and German National Bolshevikism (Eduard Limonov is a scummy chancer- however the Essence of Time Movement and the Orthodox Patriot wing of Communist Party of the Russian Federation are not). A huge problem with people on this Island speaking English is that its very easy for us to get sucked to American trends and American ways of thinking. Whatever anyone says we are very different and in a very different situation to the Seppos. Their Left is almost completely toxic outside of some of the Black Nationalists- and note that I say just some- and anything good about their Alt Right has been nicked from the Nouvelle Droite of 1980s France (Alain De Benoist is a brilliant man who has said "I am a Leftist from the Right and Rightist from the Left" and even better I think "I have Left wing ideas and Right wing values"- though if the ROI has a Right in the sense he meant that in it would be "Faith and Fatherland" Republicans such as Sean South rather than the trash of the Reform Group or people like "Young Student" here).
 

Kershaw

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#5
There was a funny video that summed up the cognitive dissonance required in the left right now.

Canadian PM Justin "I’ll Keep Saying I’m A Feminist Until There’s No Reaction" Trudeau visits a sex-segregated mosque and hails the “sisters upstairs”.


When questioned, just repeat the platitude "diversity is a source of strength" and deflect.

 
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#6
Well, my positions are summed up in Alain Soral's phrase, "left worker, right family". It's an anti-globalist position that includes the potent aspects of both "Wings" as it were. I think the plurality of beliefs that converged within the leadership of 1916 is pleasantly consistent with this perspective.

Globalism has devoured both the left and right and reconfigured and returned them as agents of destruction. So we've trot demolition experts dominating the landscape by edict of George Soros.

I'm in the rather eccentric position of liking Trump and Corbyn despite the terrible vices and confusions that mar both. Trump's irreverence towards PC and globalist dogma is commendable and important whilst Corbyn's integrity, desire to steer Britain away from Atlanticist militarism commends him. I celebrate them both as intermediate if perplexing figures.

Jettisoning Political Correctness is paramount because PC forbids the discussion of unpleasant but critical issues and mandates flattery in its stead. If one can't discuss unpleasant but critical issues still less tackle them, then problems fester and expand until disaster occurs. So it's critical that PC is overthrown to free up the arteries of frank conversation in politics. The "alt-right" is useful in that I suppose but there's an undercurrent of misanthropy that I think is unfortunate.

As for Ireland, there's no movement as such and the landscape for radical opposition is fairly desolate but there's a sprinkling of individuals that are interesting. The most high profile of which is Peadar Tóibín who by taking a very staunch pro-life view transgressed globalism in a very radical way. And there are a smattering of other of such types too.
 
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#7
Short and simple : those on the left of every hue are vermin.
Communism, Marxism, Socialism, any one with an affiliation to this blight upon the surface of the Earth should be shot.
 

Dublin 4

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#8
TG is the ultimate lefty & has Zero time for Mass Immigration- the so called "Left" here are Gaystapo & Southern Unionist Hijackers of an Ideal which went into Recession after the Berlin wall fell.
 
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#9
From the other place;

y Mercurial

He is not a serious challenge to Hillary. The Republicans had literally a dozen serious candidates and they decided to choose the only one who couldn't beat her.

REF in reply;

"Au contraire, he was the only with the faintest ability to connect to ordinary working people. Bernie Sanders let the side down massively by not going totally for the juglar against Hilary (of course his allowing himself to humilated by Black Lives Matter thugs didnt help either); we are where we are. Trump is far from perfect but the cause of working people and world peace which is what the left should be about and not mollycoddling tranny degenerates will be much, much, much better served by him than by Hilary."

Ratio Et Fides

Au contraire, he was the only with the faintest ability to connect to ordinary working people. Bernie Sanders let the side down massively by not going totally for the juglar against Hilary (of course his allowing himself to humilated by Black Lives Matter thugs didnt help either); we are where we are. Trump is far from perfect but the cause of working people and world peace which is what the left should be about and not mollycoddling tranny degenerates will be much, much, much better served by him than by Hilary.

And Merc lad in reply;


Mercurial

You really are an awful person.

And REF in reply;

Why is that Merc?

Let us have something straight; Honecker, the old poster here before my time who was a member of the Workers Party of Ireland but quite Socially Conservative and not shy about expressing that Social Conservatism, did you feel you had more in common with him or with CookieMonster?

To which there was and probably will be no answer.

Trump v Clinton,"Fight Night" -The Decider 19/10/2016 - Page 8
 

Tadhg Gaelach

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#10
I must admit to finding this stuff quite confusing. I had always considered myself Left-wing, but the recent position of parties and groups on Left has me quite at a loss to continue defining myself as such. It is not so much their economic analysis rather their lack of any national or traditional basis. For example with Corbyn's Labour, I am very attracted to his reversal of privatization of transport and NHS etc, however his support for the EU and his failure to take mass migration seriously, leave me very cold toward him. He seems to think that British people are anybody who can pitch up on the island of GB, and if Luton becomes colder version of Lahore, that's fine, for a Labour government will run the buses and provide a new community center. Yet they claim (in this case Corbyn Labout/Momentum) they are Left. Are they right, and I am wrong.

I can see that NGO/ shadow state groups, like Amnesty International and Oxfam, MSF etc are working for a "general good", maybe could be said to be following Gramsci or Alinksy approach, that if the heights of government cannot be captured, then a long march through the institutions can capture the culture of a state and the population brought to support them. Many will claim this is globalism, but is it a Marxist style spread of a world revolution? Something that Trotsky would have supported if he was still around? I, again, find myself in strong sympathy for the nation state. Even sympathetic for the English to find their country's institutions swamped by people who have no regard for them or way of life (many will say they deserve no better)

When I look at US politics, the Alt-Right seem to have good analysis of cultural problem that the SJW and the LGBT lobby are creating there. I watch Stefan Molyeaux on Youtube alot and know that he is a Libertarian, and find his take on economics tough to stomach, but he presents in a very rational and can be very convincing. The extremes of this analysis leads to a conclusion that the Left view white people as the problem and the sooner they are removed the happier the world be. And I can see that in terms of previous wars and imperialism they have a point. Can the SJW & LGBT agenda be considered left, as it seems that it too is Gramsci/Alinsky in it's intent to destroy the patriarchal/capitalist/ imperialist societies.

Even when it comes to the war in Syria, I read this recently on the page of Gearoid O'Colmain who came to speak to anti- war rally. I respect his work very much.




Gearóid Ó Colmáin

October 8 at 8:46pm ·

I was invited by ShannonWatch, an Irish 'peace' organisation, to give a talk at a seminar about NATO's wars. I was delighted to participate in such an event and was going to talk about Afghanistan, Yugoslavia, Rwanda, Libya, Syria and many more countries, explaining NATO's geopolitical strategies and ambitions. When I arrived at the event, I was told by the organiser that I could not speak as he had heard I was "anti-semitic" and "homophobic". He had never read anything I wrote! He said organisations ShannonWatch are affiliated with intervened and asked that I be prevented from speaking. Amnesty International and the Irish Anti-War movement are among the affiliates. In 2011, the Irish anti-war movement supported the NATO-backed terrorists in Libya. They continue to back the terrorists in Syria. As for Amnesty International, they are the public relations whores of fascism. Hardly surprising, therefore, that they would want to prevent me from informing some of the genuine and good people who were there today. Forget about the buffoons of the far right, the real fascists today are the self-righteous, cowardly, ignorant, smug, reactionary, petty-bourgeois leftists! They make me sick!



So Is there even a Left anymore? Is this stuff in anyway related to Marx? Or do the old labels even apply anymore? Is the 21st century shaping up into what Dugin would say Liberalism vs Traditional, or Globalism vs Nationalism. Is there a place for "real" marxism?

I have probably made lots of of mistakes in this, regarding how i interpret these thinkers and ideologies to be about. Perhaps posters could offer clarity?

A lot of very interesting insights there a chara. It certainly is extraordinary they way the Left has gone from being hard core working class leaders like James Connolly to decadent Liberals like Eoin Ó Broin. It seems to me that after the fall of the Soviet Union the Western Left just gave up on economics and the working class, and just concentrated on sexual issues. The Oligarchs realised that traditional rules of sexuality and family were actually a barrier to profit, so suddenly the Left became the best friends of the Oligarchs.
 

Tadhg Gaelach

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#11
Short and simple : those on the left of every hue are vermin.
Communism, Marxism, Socialism, any one with an affiliation to this blight upon the surface of the Earth should be shot.

Communism, Marxism and Socialism are almost the polar opposite of today's trendy lefties.
 
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#12
Jettisoning Political Correctness is paramount because PC forbids the discussion of unpleasant but critical issues and mandates flattery in its stead. If one can't discuss unpleasant but critical issues still less tackle them, then problems fester and expand until disaster occurs. So it's critical that PC is overthrown to free up the arteries of frank conversation in politics. The "alt-right" is useful in that I suppose but there's an undercurrent of misanthropy that I think is unfortunate.
.
That is part of Seppo/Yankee culture (I prefer the term Seppo to describe them than Yankee, it is more biting and cant be construed as affectionate); that undercurrent exists as much in the so called "Social Justice Warriors" as it does in the Alt Right- actually with both its more than an undercurrent but a bit of a driving passion. What the Alt Right does not have though is the narcissistic sentimentality that you find almost universally in Americans. It would be extremely arrogant of us to think that we could sort them out but one thing we can do is protect ourselves from their pioson. People should try to a learn another European language and really get their minds around the culture it is a part of. Also people should try to improve their improve their Irish; one of the reasons that Welsh Protestantism is so superior to Ulster Protestantism in all respects is that all the best Welsh Prods not only speak but think in Welsh and this protects for degenerating American influences, my dad for instance believes in a "Pre-Tribulation Rapture" and yet calls himself a Presbyterian, you wouldnt get a Welsh person doing that. Unless Southern Ireland wanted to be full on integrated into the mainland UK which it didnt and doesnt speaking English as a first language is actually not a bonus but minus.
 
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