Latvian left wing party under fire for "Future of the EU" Facebook election poster

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Macushla
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#26
Yet outside of the Labour Communism and Socialism was usually married to pretty hard line Republicanism when Republicanism meant Nationalism in Ireland. I don't think you can simply wrap up things as easily as you have done- history isn't that simple. The question also is why have FF and FG brought things to where they are now? Can you answer that?
Yes, history isn't that simple. There were a lot of West Brit-type communists in Ireland too, ones who supported the Two Nations Theory or who were linked to British communist orgs. I don't consider the communists who diluted Irish nationalism to be good nationalists at all, on the contrary I'd argue they're partly responsible for the current mess we're in.
 
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#27
The irony being the the Soviet Union was anything but secular.
"Up to 1930, 31 bishops, 1,600 clergy and 7,000 monks were murdered under the Soviet regime. According to statistics available for 1930, there were then confined in prisons, under starvation conditions, 48 bishops, 3,700 clergy and 8,000 monks and nuns. The “International League against the Third International” at Geneva issued statistics on August 6th 1935, showing that in Russia 40,000 priests had been arrested, banished or murdered. Nearly all the Orthodox churches and chapels have been either destroyed or else closed to religious worship and converted into clubs, cinemas, barns etc. Prior to our advent to power, the atheist propaganda carried out by the Marxists in Germany, whose forces we have overthrown, took its stand in favour of the dreadful state of things which I have described. The Social Democratic “League of Geman Freethinkers” alone had a membership of 600,000. The Communist “League of Proletarian Freethinkers” had close on 160,000 members. Almost without exception, the intellectual leaders of Marxist atheism in Germany were Jews, among them being Erich Weinert, Felix Abraham, Dr. Levy-Lenz and others. At regular meetings, held in the presence of a notary public, members were requested to register their declaration of withdrawal from their church for a fee of 2 Marks. And thus the fight for atheism was carried on. Between 1918 and 1933 the withdrawals from the German Evangelical Churches alone amounted to two-and-a-half million persons in Germany. The programme which these atheistic societies laid down in regard to sexual matters is amply characterised in the following demands publicly expressed at meetings and distributed in leaflet form:

1. The complete abrogation of those paragraphs of the law dealing with the crime of abortion, and the right to have abortion procured free of charge in State Hospitals.

2. Non-interference with prostitution.

3. The abrogation of all bourgeois-capitalistic regulations in regard to marriage and divorce.

4. Official registration to be optional and the children to be educated by the community.

5. Abrogation of all penalties for sexual perversities and amnesty to be granted to all persons condemned as “sexual criminals.”

Truly a case of methodical insanity, which has for its aim the wilful destruction of the nations and their civilization and the substitution of barbarism as a fundamental principle of public life."
 

Tadhg Gaelach

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#28
I think too often you put too much credence into propaganda. Communism supports revolution in all nations, it isn't a specific national ideology at all. Communist Russia was basically in the early years ruled by a criminal international cartel of Jews, without a nation of their own and also possessing a particularly Talmudic hatred, no wonder they took to international communism like a duck to water. It's an ideology wrapped up in jargon and pseudo-intellectualism but has been used in the West as a pernicious and poisonous anti-national force.

You are giving too much credence to that US Right Wing garbage. Unfortunately, if you don't have the means to scientifically analyse the structure of society - all you have is that kind of nonsensical thinking. The Protocols of the Elders of Zion seems to be the most academic book this Right Wing nutters have. I don't say they are bad people - just that they are willfully ignorant. They are even proud of their ignorance and suspect any kind of intellectual approach.

Of course Communism supports revolution in every country, because the working class is being raped and plundered in every country.
 

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#29
"Up to 1930, 31 bishops, 1,600 clergy and 7,000 monks were murdered under the Soviet regime. According to statistics available for 1930, there were then confined in prisons, under starvation conditions, 48 bishops, 3,700 clergy and 8,000 monks and nuns. The “International League against the Third International” at Geneva issued statistics on August 6th 1935, showing that in Russia 40,000 priests had been arrested, banished or murdered. Nearly all the Orthodox churches and chapels have been either destroyed or else closed to religious worship and converted into clubs, cinemas, barns etc. Prior to our advent to power, the atheist propaganda carried out by the Marxists in Germany, whose forces we have overthrown, took its stand in favour of the dreadful state of things which I have described. The Social Democratic “League of Geman Freethinkers” alone had a membership of 600,000. The Communist “League of Proletarian Freethinkers” had close on 160,000 members. Almost without exception, the intellectual leaders of Marxist atheism in Germany were Jews, among them being Erich Weinert, Felix Abraham, Dr. Levy-Lenz and others. At regular meetings, held in the presence of a notary public, members were requested to register their declaration of withdrawal from their church for a fee of 2 Marks. And thus the fight for atheism was carried on. Between 1918 and 1933 the withdrawals from the German Evangelical Churches alone amounted to two-and-a-half million persons in Germany. The programme which these atheistic societies laid down in regard to sexual matters is amply characterised in the following demands publicly expressed at meetings and distributed in leaflet form:

1. The complete abrogation of those paragraphs of the law dealing with the crime of abortion, and the right to have abortion procured free of charge in State Hospitals.

2. Non-interference with prostitution.

3. The abrogation of all bourgeois-capitalistic regulations in regard to marriage and divorce.

4. Official registration to be optional and the children to be educated by the community.

5. Abrogation of all penalties for sexual perversities and amnesty to be granted to all persons condemned as “sexual criminals.”

Truly a case of methodical insanity, which has for its aim the wilful destruction of the nations and their civilization and the substitution of barbarism as a fundamental principle of public life."

The really big error you are making is that if anyone, anywhere, claims they are a Marxist and they say something - you accept that that must be Marxism.
 

Tadhg Gaelach

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#30
If you take the National Party. Good and genuine people, no doubt. But, they refuse to read Marx. The result of that is that they have no real economic or social understanding of what's going on in Ireland, and they have even less idea of how to change it. They don't even really know what they want.
 
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Macushla
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#31
You are giving too much credence to that US Right Wing garbage. Unfortunately, if you don't have the means to scientifically analyse the structure of society - all you have is that kind of nonsensical thinking. The Protocols of the Elders of Zion seems to be the most academic book this Right Wing nutters have. I don't say they are bad people - just that they are willfully ignorant. They are even proud of their ignorance and suspect any kind of intellectual approach.

Of course Communism supports revolution in every country, because the working class is being raped and plundered in every country.
There are very genuine and legitimate criticisms to make of capitalism, of class relations, etc. But Marxism is too humanist, too material, too concerned with the the international proletariat which trump everything else such as God or nation. I don't like to repeat conservative tropes, but the constant shifting of goal posts and "he isn't a real communist", "that wasn't real communism" seems to be the crux of some of the points you're making here, especially about communist states. One can be anti-capitalist without falling into the arms of international communism, which has been responsible for the starvation of millions in the Soviet Union for example. Personally I find economic/social theories such as national syndicalism to be far more suited to my kind of thinking and beliefs than communism.
 

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#32
There are very genuine and legitimate criticisms to make of capitalism, of class relations, etc. But Marxism is too humanist, too material, too concerned with the the international proletariat which trump everything else such as God or nation. I don't like to repeat conservative tropes, but the constant shifting of goal posts and "he isn't a real communist", "that wasn't real communism" seems to be the crux of some of the points you're making here, especially about communist states. One can be anti-capitalist without falling into the arms of international communism, which has been responsible for the starvation of millions in the Soviet Union for example.

I'm not saying there's any "Real Marxism." Marx himself said he wasn't a Marxist. Marx was one man. With his friend Engels he wrote some books. As for "International Communism," what is it? Back in the day, you could say it existed. But now? As for the Communist states, I'm very proud of their achievements. All of the Communist states in Eastern Europe were infinitely better than they are now.

Personally, I'd prefer Ireland to have a Theocratic Communism - based on Druidism. We might even make Marx a saint in that religion - a Doctor of the Church.
 
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#33
I'm not saying there's any "Real Marxism." Marx himself said he wasn't a Marxist. Marx was one man. With his friend Engels he wrote some books. As for "International Communism," what is it? Back in the day, you could say it existed. But now? As for the Communist states, I'm very proud of their achievements. All of the Communist states in Eastern Europe were infinitely better than they are now.

Personally, I'd prefer Ireland to have a Theocratic Communism - based on Druidism. We might even make Marx a saint in that religion - a Doctor of the Church.
Just on your last point, at face value it seems mad to me. But besides that, how do you square that up with religion being "the opium of the masses"?

Also, what by Marx would you recommend I read?
 
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#34
the ideas of Lenin ARE paramount id est What Is To Be Done?

ML was a bulwark against the encroaching influences upon Islam but ultimately Stalin removed its influence - it depends upon the interpretation of Marx

REAL Communism id est non revisionic trash is the tradition of ML/MLM - the other shit like Trotsky/Gramsci/Bordiga/PostMarxism/Whatever is just speculative bullshit that will never lead to any thing

the Fascists were in fact some of the first SJWs as crazy as that sounds - the American Unionist priest used the term Social Justice constantly as did Evita Peron - the influence of Marx is obvious but with out the overt attempt at the obliteration of class distinction and the state - the other influence is medieval styles of proto-Socialism which were pinned down by a pope in the nineteenth century with the dawn of Marxism - a later pope also conceived of Distributism which is Christian Socialism

the Protocols are not the end all for the strange aberration of the Left which culminated in Herrn Adolf Hitler - this is a text which highlighted the soul of the Jew but was ultimately counterfeit and a text which no serious Hitlerite took at face value - it was an entry level text for people new to Hitlerism

the nonProudhonic Sorelic syndicate is indeed an extremely pliable idea - i am sure if our wise economist actually read Sorel he would be of a different approach

i have enjoyed embarassing myself in this thread but in the end it is all in the service of the correct divulgence of the truth - that none of this is relevant to the thread since the group this party belongs to has more in common with Blair than Lenin or Sorel
 
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Tadhg Gaelach

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#35
Just on your last point, at face value it seems mad to me. But besides that, how do you square that up with religion being "the opium of the masses"?

Also, what by Marx would you recommend I read?

I think its clear that Christianity adopted a lot of Druids and mythical characters as saints, so why not adopt Marx too? He might not have approved of it himself, but great men don't get to chose what people do with their names. In regard to the opium of the masses, there's clearly a lot of truth to that. 37% of regular mass goes in Ireland voted for abortion. It clear that religion to them is just going to the church on a Sunday for their fix of "holiness," and then living perfectly bestial lives for the rest of the time - including supporting infanticide. But I wouldn't agree with Marx in everything he says about religion. I think he missed the really important aspects of religion - or misunderstood them. That was inevitable really, as by the 19th century, Christianity had debased itself and turned itself into little more than a prop for the ruling class.

I'd suggest the Communist Manifesto as a good place to start reading. There are also readings of Das Kapital on You Tube. It's hard going to read yourself, but it's a lot easier to just listen to.

Btw. I believe ancient Sumeria did have a Theocratic Communism. Everyone brought their harvest to the temples and it was kept there by the priests and handed out to the people over the year. All the gold and silver was also kept in the temples, and people used a kind of currency backed up by the precious metal.
 
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