Immigration, Good or Bad ? Open Debate thread.

Tadhg Gaelach

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You people need to face the fact that Ireland is changing, but it is changing for the better into a more progressive , more developed and more accepting nation. It has been proven multiple times that for an economy to succeed it needs Immigrants , go back to before the 90s when they're were no immigrants, Ireland was one of the poorest countries in the world . In two decades due to in no small part immigrants , Ireland has grown into a better and greater nation .

I'd be interested in seeing this "proof" that an economy needs immigrants to succeed. The German and Japanese economic miracles in the 1950s and 60s happened with no immigration at all. The US economy was at its strongest in the 1950s and 60s, when immigration levels were at their lowest. South Korea transformed from an agricultural economy in the 1970s to one of the worlds largest industrial powers during the 1990s - with practically zero immigration. Likewise, China has become the world's largest economy - without immigration.

I'd also like to see some evidence that Ireland is a better place today than it was before mass immigration. We didn't have tourists being beaten up by African gangs. We weren't in danger of becoming a minority in our own country. We weren't paying to rear the children of other nations, so as to eventually hand our nation over to them. Even from an economic point of view, housing was affordable - and we didn't owe the European Central Bank 240 billion Euro, and still borrowing over 600 million Euro a month.
 
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Art

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Are you aware that a lot of people would call you a racist and a xenophobe for being against mass immigration?

Have a think about that.
I would say on a scale of 1 to 10, I would score around 4 and so to those who score 1 you are no doubt correct. It is those who score around the 10 mark on the scale whom I refer to as racists and xenophobes
 

El Chaval.

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I'd be interested in seeing this "proof" that an economy needs immigrants to succeed. The German and Japanese economic miracles in the 1950s and 60s happened with no immigration at all. The US economy was at its strongest in the 1950s and 60s, when immigration levels were at their lowest. South Korea transformed from an agricultural economy in the 1970s to one of the worlds largest industrial powers during the 1990s - with practically zero immigration. Likewise, China has become the world's largest economy - without immigration.

I'd also like to see some evidence that Ireland is a better place today than it was before mass immigration. We didn't have tourists being beaten up by African gangs. We weren't in danger of becoming a minority in our own country. We weren't paying to rear the children of other nations, so as to eventually hand our nation over to them. Even from an economic point of view, housing was affordable - and we didn't owe the European Central Bank 240 billion Euro, and still borrowing over 600 billion Euro a month.
Spain had 4% unemployment under Franco. Negligible immigration.
Post EU and the biggest wave of immigration in centuries it hit 28% unemployed.
 

Dublin 4

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too late.
Too late? lol!

Did you not hear of Brexit?

Did you not hear that Ireland would need a Referendum to ratify Brexit?

You seriously think that the Eurozone will hold & that the Brits will be able to leave the EU without us not having to make massive changes?

The Game is only starting.
 

El Chaval.

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So just how would you describe someone who vehemently hates all of race without using the word racist???? What is the correct PC term I should be using?

I don't think any demographic is above criticism.
You should be free to attack Islam or Judaism and it's warts and all.
Christ, there's not a day goes buy when we don't hear attacks on the RCC.
 

Tadhg Gaelach

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Spain had 4% unemployment under Franco. Negligible immigration.
Post EU and the biggest wave of immigration in centuries it hit 28% unemployed.

Mass immigration really only has one economic purpose - and that's to keep down the wages of the native workers. But, as we see in the world today, when you do that - there is nobody who can afford to buy what you produce. Today, about 5% of the world's population owns over 50% of the world's wealth. Nothing like that has ever happened in the world before. And the way they have done this is by using mass immigration to hold down wages. But its not a sustainable solution - even for the Oligarchs. The Crash of 2008 was Reality breaking in on their dream - and the world economy is still on life support. It would be no exaggeration to say that it is China that is keeping that life support going - a country with little or no immigration.
 

El Chaval.

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Mass immigration really only has one economic purpose - and that's to keep down the wages of the native workers. But, as we see in the world today, when you do that - there is nobody who can afford to buy what you produce. Today, about 5% of the world's population owns over 50% of the world's wealth. Nothing like that has ever happened in the world before. And the way they have done this is by using mass immigration to hold down wages. But its not a sustainable solution - even for the Oligarchs. The Crash of 2008 was Reality breaking in on their dream - and the world economy is still on life support. It would be no exaggeration to say that it is China that is keeping that life support going - a country with little or no immigration.
Yes, Alan Greenspan let the cat out of the bag over a decade ago when he said America needed illegals to drive down wages.
If you want to create an artificial Housing and construction boom, you need illegal immigrants to do that.
Likewise in Ireland we had the ridiculous situation of immigrants building houses to house the immigrants.
 

Tadhg Gaelach

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Yes, Alan Greenspan let the cat out of the bag over a decade ago when he said America needed illegals to drive down wages.
If you want to create an artificial Housing and construction boom, you need illegal immigrants to do that.
Likewise in Ireland we had the ridiculous situation of immigrants building houses to house the immigrants.
Yes, Greenspan knows his economics - I'll give him that - but he is a vicious and inhuman character. Now he's going around the USA making speeches about how "we" need to cut old age pensions and benefits - otherwise the US economy will never recover. I've watched a couple of those lectures now - and not once has anyone in the audience asked if he will be volunteering to take a cut in his own huge state pension. I don't know if they didn't think to ask - or if such embarrassing questions were censored from the final broadcast.
 

Tadhg Gaelach

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I'm babbling about you calling people racists and xenophobes, yet you'd be called those very things for your beliefs by many. But because you're happy you're not too high on your scale, then you can sit in judgement here.

Also, you've obliterated your own one rule in this very thread by going off topic and ranting about the racists and xenophobes on the site. It's pretty funny tbf.

It seems that its racist to point out that if the EU really wanted to help Africans, it would allow them to be Africans - and help them in Africa. Or, at the very least, stop bombing successful African countries like Libya who were helping to develop Africa - not just steal her youth.
 

El Chaval.

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If we need immigrants....really, really need them.....then why not try and entice the Irish diaspora in England, Scotland, America, Australia etc to relocate here.
Why is it easier for a Romanian pickpocket to set up home in Ireland than a Sullivan or Kelly from Boston?
Let's offer the Irish abroad a hassle free return programme, some tax incentives and affordable housing.

We wont do that of course.
Better to import Nigerians and Pakistanis and get "likes" from the EU and IMF.
 

Art

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I'd be interested in seeing this "proof" that an economy needs immigrants to succeed. The German and Japanese economic miracles in the 1950s and 60s happened with no immigration at all. The US economy was at its strongest in the 1950s and 60s, when immigration levels were at their lowest. South Korea transformed from an agricultural economy in the 1970s to one of the worlds largest industrial powers during the 1990s - with practically zero immigration. Likewise, China has become the world's largest economy - without immigration.

I'd also like to see some evidence that Ireland is a better place today than it was before mass immigration. We didn't have tourists being beaten up by African gangs. We weren't in danger of becoming a minority in our own country. We weren't paying to rear the children of other nations, so as to eventually hand our nation over to them. Even from an economic point of view, housing was affordable - and we didn't owe the European Central Bank 240 billion Euro, and still borrowing over 600 billion Euro a month.
Who would have thought we would be borrowing 12 times as much as the debt crippled USA. Any other economic pearls of wisdom you would like to share with us. I enjoy a good laugh.
 
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