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I wish I was in the land of bog cotton

TW Tone

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Pink-house-charleston-sc1.md.jpg

The 'pink house' is the oldest house in Charleston in South Carolina. It has a semi-Iberian warmth to it which would make it fit in in South Munster (I dream of a Munster simultaneously re-Gaelicised and Iberianised) but nowhere else in the country I can think of.

I have often thought that Irish travel agencies should set up holiday packages in South Carolina.
Lots of history, great beaches, almost perfect climate, wonderful cuisine....

'Nothing could be fina
Than to be in Carolina...'
 

Clarke-Connolly

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I don’t know if this song is controversial or not but it is one of the Best Singing performances I have ever heard.


And another from Joan Baez

 
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Zosimus

Zosimus

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That's stupid nonsense.
The Confederacy had no designs on expanding north.

By the way, the CSA never adopted an anthem, but if it had it would have been "The Bonny Blue Flag", not "Dixie". A much more dignified tune, and based on an Irish melody.
Sadly it's rarely heard any more, and the US military bands won't touch it.
They had no short-term plans of annexing northern terrirtory, that is true, but they were very keen on expanding south and west. Think of the Missouri border ruffians in Bleeding Kansas before the war. Given that they had very clear designs to oversize the Union with the amount of southern and western territory they annexed, it seems very likely that they ultimately intended for their new order to eventually swallow the old one completely.
 

TW Tone

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They had no short-term plans of annexing northern terrirtory, that is true, but they were very keen on expanding south and west. Think of the Missouri border ruffians in Bleeding Kansas before the war. Given that they had very clear designs to oversize the Union with the amount of southern and western territory they annexed, it seems very likely that they ultimately intended for their new order to eventually swallow the old one completely.
It's very hard to dialogue with you if you shift the terms.
You claimed the CSA was eyeing the North.
That's not so.

You did not mention south and west. Yes, of course many southerners wanted to push the CSA as far as California. California was actually pro-Union, but I have no info on Californian units fighting in the big Eastern battles.
There was no battle AFAIK in California, but there was a fight with the Union Army at a place called Glorieta Pass in New Mexico. Historians label that a Confederate victory, for all the good it did them.

A number of Confederate thinkers entertained dreams of opening a big empire to the south, pushing into Latin America, but that was just fantasy.
 

Myles O'Reilly

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There is the obvious fact that Cork and Dixie are both self-consciously rebellious southern agrarian regions who fought aganst all odds on the defeated sides of civil wars against subsequently much-resented northerners.
Perhaps I'm nit picking but in the case of Cork it was easterners not northerners.
 
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Zosimus

Zosimus

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The Confederacy has in common with the 'Munster Republic' that it was only provisionally regional - the Confederates, far wanting to be left alone, were very much expansionists, and the evidence suggests they aimed to coax-in or annex the Union states piece-by-piece. Stephens's Cornerstone speech declares that the false principles of the obsolete US constitution (racial equality) will be overcome by the truer principles of the Confederacy (the fitness of blacks only for slavery) in a way which heavily implies that the complete supplantation of the Union by the Confederacy is inevitable. As I said, I like Neoconfederates better than the originals, who were much like Neocons in their chauvinist expansionism. The worst of nineteenth-century proto-Neocon Seppo savagery came from Southern proto-Confederates like William Walker. Even in modern times there are few designs for widespread regime change as sinister as those devised by the Knights of the Golden Circle, which sought to annex Mexico and the Caribbean to transform them into an image of the antebellum south. The Confederate cause has been adopted by localists and agrarian nationalists but in actual fact it was a hick-faced crude prototype of later Seppo imperialism. The adoption by white nationalists is similarly misguided, given that if the Confederates had their way all of north America would be full of Coloured people plantations. They were committed to expanding as well as preserving slavery.
It's very hard to dialogue with you if you shift the terms.
You claimed the CSA was eyeing the North.
That's not so.

You did not mention south and west. Yes, of course many southerners wanted to push the CSA as far as California. California was actually pro-Union, but I have no info on Californian units fighting in the big Eastern battles.
There was no battle AFAIK in California, but there was a fight with the Union Army at a place called Glorieta Pass in New Mexico. Historians label that a Confederate victory, for all the good it did them.

A number of Confederate thinkers entertained dreams of opening a big empire to the south, pushing into Latin America, but that was just fantasy.
I was not speaking in terms of short-term territorial goals of the new power but rather examining the long-term strategy implied in the philosophy behind it. In the Cornerstone speech Stephens's argument is not that the south is a separate culture with a right to secede to defend its own national traditions, but rather that the CS constitution is correcting the philosophical errors of the US constitution (those errors being negligence of the question of human racial difference by the founders in his view). His rhetoric is 'progressive' rather than conservative, national rather than regional in its orientation. The implication is that a new American Revolution is under way, however long it may take.

As soon as the CSA came into existence it was eyeing up ways to increase itself, and I believe the CSA had designs on other states with a view to eventually submerging all of the Union and replacing the USA with the CSA. Its very existence was an kind of act of belligerence rather than a meek abstention from the hustle and bustle of industrial Yankee life and I don't blame the northerners for crushing an expansionist power which had declared itself in their territory.

I think it is fairly certain that if the south had won a total victory, it would have exported slavery to all unincorporated territories it was occupying (insofar as climate allowed for plantation agriculture) and quite probably have found a way to force it on certain Union States too, just as pro-slavery Missourians had attempted to export slavery to Kansas (William Quantrill and other bushwhackers give a good taste of what Confederate revanchism looked like), and the 'fantasy' of a southern empire would have been put into execution. It was real enough under William Walker. Pro-slavery southern Seppos invading Latin American countries is a prominent fact of ninetenth-century American history. To say that the southerners wouldn't do in victory what they were already doing before the war is naive.

Perhaps I'm nit picking but in the case of Cork it was easterners not northerners.
Well, northeasterners. Anywhere north of Cork is north.
 

Saul Goodman

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It has been a mighty year for bog cotton in the border region
 

Clarke-Connolly

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Will there be an Extermination of the Local Irish ? After all West-Brit Types have done that before ? ?
 
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Zosimus

Zosimus

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This song is dumb as donkeyshit but I love it on some deep primal level.
 
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