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I wish I was in the land of bog cotton

Zosimus

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It is a general rule that when you contextualise your nation by reference to America your understanding suffers and your morality and intelligence take a concussive hit but I think there is profitable warrant to compare Cork to Dixieland. Racially I am a Corkonian and I am fond of my people, and I am fond of Dixielanders for similar reasons. I am sympathetic to Confederate-sympathisers (particularly the Southern Agrarians of I'll Take My Stand) whose love of their land and heritage has my admiration, but not to the Confederate cause itself. My ordinary run of problems is compounded by the fact that I have a migraine and I am under psychic attack (possibly from savage Ulster people or bitter Leinstermen) so I will keep this thread short, simple and uncontroversial, and so obvious as to be boring, so as to avoid being subject to further malicious attacks.

There is the obvious fact that Cork and Dixie are both self-consciously rebellious southern agrarian regions who fought aganst all odds on the defeated sides of civil wars against subsequently much-resented northerners. There is the obvious resemblance of the Cork flag to the battle-standard of the Army of Northern Virginia. There is the notable place that the burnings of Atlanta and Cork City play in tribal memory. The fall of Richmond and the fall of Cork were both turning points in the Civil Wars. There is the ever-present threat of secession.* The obvious historical parallels interest me less than the parallels of accent, manner, temperament and culture. Daniel Corkery and Frank O'Connor's fiction, while not as good, has a quality evocative of Flannery O'Connor and William Faulkner. More significantly, the Irish-language literature of Munster (which is the soil in which we'd search for the roots of revival were we sane) in general is distinctly 'Southern Gothic'. Corkonians have a certain half old-world and half-colonial genteel quality evocative of the American southern belle and gentleman. I cannot recall whether Margaret Mitchell tells us Scarlet O'Hara's people came from Cork but I know in my heart they did. In both regions is a prideful sense of place and haughtiness towards the north so insolent it becomes polite in a roundabout way by presuming a good graciousness and patient receptivity on the other end. There is of course the tendency to call everybody son or boy.

If you want to understand the rebel spirit of the southern states, picture Jefferson Davis saying, from the corner of his mouth, and a wink in his eye, that Richmond is the rael capital bai.




*The Confederacy has in common with the 'Munster Republic' that it was only provisionally regional - the Confederates, far wanting to be left alone, were very much expansionists, and the evidence suggests they aimed to coax-in or annex the Union states piece-by-piece. Stephens's Cornerstone speech declares that the false principles of the obsolete US constitution (racial equality) will be overcome by the truer principles of the Confederacy (the fitness of blacks only for slavery) in a way which heavily implies that the complete supplantation of the Union by the Confederacy is inevitable. As I said, I like Neoconfederates better than the originals, who were much like Neocons in their chauvinist expansionism. The worst of nineteenth-century proto-Neocon Seppo savagery came from Southern proto-Confederates like William Walker. Even in modern times there are few designs for widespread regime change as sinister as those devised by the Knights of the Golden Circle, which sought to annex Mexico and the Caribbean to transform them into an image of the antebellum south. The Confederate cause has been adopted by localists and agrarian nationalists but in actual fact it was a hick-faced crude prototype of later Seppo imperialism. The adoption by white nationalists is similarly misguided, given that if the Confederates had their way all of north America would be full of Coloured people plantations. They were committed to expanding as well as preserving slavery.
 
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Colonel Zachariah

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Do ye know any Daisy Dukes?...
 

FairstoodtheWind

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It is a general rule that when you contextualise your nation by reference to America your understanding suffers and your morality and intelligence take a concussive hit but I think there is profitable warrant to compare Cork to Dixieland. Racially I am a Corkonian and I am fond of my people, and I am fond of Dixielanders for similar reasons. I am sympathetic to Confederate-sympathisers (particularly the Southern Agrarians of I'll Take My Stand) whose love of their land and heritage has my admiration, but not to the Confederate cause itself. My ordinary run of problems is compounded by the fact that I have a migraine and I am under psychic attack (possibly from savage Ulster people or bitter Leinstermen) so I will keep this thread short, simple and uncontroversial, and so obvious as to be boring, so as to avoid being subject to further malicious attacks.

There is the obvious fact that Cork and Dixie are both self-consciously rebellious southern agrarian regions who fought aganst all odds on the defeated sides of civil wars against much-resented northerners. There is the obvious resemblance of the Cork flag to the battle-standard of the Army of Northern Virginia. There is the notable place that the burnings of Atlanta and Cork City play in tribal memory. The fall of Richmond and the fall of Cork were both turning points in the Civil Wars. There is the ever-present threat of secession.* The obvious historical parallels interest me less than the parallels of accent, manner, temperament and culture. Daniel Corkery and Frank O'Connor's fiction, while not as good, has a quality evocative of Flannery O'Connor and William Faulkner. More significantly, the Irish-language literature of Munster (which is the soil in which we'd search for the roots of revival were we sane) in general is distinctly 'Southern Gothic'. Corkonians have a certain old-world genteel quality evoctive of the American southern belle and gentleman. I cannot recall whether Margaret Mitchell tells us Scarlet O'Hara's people came from Cork but I know in my heart they did. In both regions is a prideful sense of place and haughtiness towards the north so insolent it becomes polite in a roundabout way by presuming a good graciousness and patient receptivity on the other end. There is of course the tendency to call everybody son or boy.

If you want to understand the rebel spirit of the southern states, picture Jefferson Davis saying, from the corner of his mouth, and a wink in his eye, that Richmond is the rael capital bai.




*The Confederacy has in common with the 'Munster Republic' that it was only provisionally regional - the Confederates, far wanting to be left alone, were very much expansionists, and the evidence suggests they aimed to coax-in or annex the Union states piece-by-piece. Stephens's Cornerstone speech declares that the false principles of the obsolete US constitution (racial equality) will be overcome by the truer principles of the Confederacy (the fitness of blacks only for slavery) in a way which heavily implies that the complete supplantation of the Union by the Confederacy is inevitable. As I said, I like Neoconfederates better than the originals, who were much like Neocons in their chauvinist expansionism. The worst of nineteenth-century proto-Neocon Seppo savagery came from Southern proto-Confederates like William Walker. Even in modern times there are few designs for widespread regime change as sinister as those devised by the Knights of the Golden Circle, which sought to annex Mexico and the Caribbean to transform them into an image of the antebellum south. The Confederate cause has been adopted by localists and agrarian nationalists but in actual fact it was a hick-faced crude prototype of later Seppo imperialism. The adoption by white nationalists is similarly misguided, given that if the Confederates had their way all of north America would be full of Coloured people plantations. They were committed to expanding as well as preserving slavery.
Can I offer this song for your consideration. Seems to have played a part too

......During the American Civil War, soldiers on both sides of the conflict thought of their wives and girlfriends back home when they heard the song "Lorena". One Confederate officer even attributed the South's defeat to the song. He reasoned that upon hearing the mournful ballad the soldiers grew so homesick that they lost their effectiveness as a fighting force.....

 
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Zosimus

Zosimus

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Pink-house-charleston-sc1.md.jpg

The 'pink house' is the oldest house in Charleston in South Carolina. It has a semi-Iberian warmth to it which would make it fit in in South Munster (I dream of a Munster simultaneously re-Gaelicised and Iberianised) but nowhere else in the country I can think of.
 
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Zosimus

Zosimus

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There are also certain remarkable parallels you can draw between the Sons of Queen Sadhbh Amhaltach and a certain American agrarian secret society which dressed up in ghostly attire and conducted night raids but this is not a particularly flattering association to make and I only allude to it here for the sake of completeness.
 

Myles O'Reilly

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Corkonians have a certain half old-world and half-colonial genteel quality evocative of the American southern belle and gentleman.
That's true. Its why the Queen visited there when she came. There was always going to be a warm welcome in Cork.
 
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TW Tone

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It is a general rule that when you contextualise your nation by reference to America your understanding suffers and your morality and intelligence take a concussive hit but I think there is profitable warrant to compare Cork to Dixieland. Racially I am a Corkonian and I am fond of my people, and I am fond of Dixielanders for similar reasons. I am sympathetic to Confederate-sympathisers (particularly the Southern Agrarians of I'll Take My Stand) whose love of their land and heritage has my admiration, but not to the Confederate cause itself. My ordinary run of problems is compounded by the fact that I have a migraine and I am under psychic attack (possibly from savage Ulster people or bitter Leinstermen) so I will keep this thread short, simple and uncontroversial, and so obvious as to be boring, so as to avoid being subject to further malicious attacks.

There is the obvious fact that Cork and Dixie are both self-consciously rebellious southern agrarian regions who fought aganst all odds on the defeated sides of civil wars against subsequently much-resented northerners. There is the obvious resemblance of the Cork flag to the battle-standard of the Army of Northern Virginia. There is the notable place that the burnings of Atlanta and Cork City play in tribal memory. The fall of Richmond and the fall of Cork were both turning points in the Civil Wars. There is the ever-present threat of secession.* The obvious historical parallels interest me less than the parallels of accent, manner, temperament and culture. Daniel Corkery and Frank O'Connor's fiction, while not as good, has a quality evocative of Flannery O'Connor and William Faulkner. More significantly, the Irish-language literature of Munster (which is the soil in which we'd search for the roots of revival were we sane) in general is distinctly 'Southern Gothic'. Corkonians have a certain half old-world and half-colonial genteel quality evocative of the American southern belle and gentleman. I cannot recall whether Margaret Mitchell tells us Scarlet O'Hara's people came from Cork but I know in my heart they did. In both regions is a prideful sense of place and haughtiness towards the north so insolent it becomes polite in a roundabout way by presuming a good graciousness and patient receptivity on the other end. There is of course the tendency to call everybody son or boy.

If you want to understand the rebel spirit of the southern states, picture Jefferson Davis saying, from the corner of his mouth, and a wink in his eye, that Richmond is the rael capital bai.




*The Confederacy has in common with the 'Munster Republic' that it was only provisionally regional - the Confederates, far wanting to be left alone, were very much expansionists, and the evidence suggests they aimed to coax-in or annex the Union states piece-by-piece. Stephens's Cornerstone speech declares that the false principles of the obsolete US constitution (racial equality) will be overcome by the truer principles of the Confederacy (the fitness of blacks only for slavery) in a way which heavily implies that the complete supplantation of the Union by the Confederacy is inevitable. As I said, I like Neoconfederates better than the originals, who were much like Neocons in their chauvinist expansionism. The worst of nineteenth-century proto-Neocon Seppo savagery came from Southern proto-Confederates like William Walker. Even in modern times there are few designs for widespread regime change as sinister as those devised by the Knights of the Golden Circle, which sought to annex Mexico and the Caribbean to transform them into an image of the antebellum south. The Confederate cause has been adopted by localists and agrarian nationalists but in actual fact it was a hick-faced crude prototype of later Seppo imperialism. The adoption by white nationalists is similarly misguided, given that if the Confederates had their way all of north America would be full of Coloured people plantations. They were committed to expanding as well as preserving slavery.

That's stupid nonsense.
The Confederacy had no designs on expanding north.

By the way, the CSA never adopted an anthem, but if it had it would have been "The Bonny Blue Flag", not "Dixie". A much more dignified tune, and based on an Irish melody.
Sadly it's rarely heard any more, and the US military bands won't touch it.
 
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TW Tone

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Pink-house-charleston-sc1.md.jpg

The 'pink house' is the oldest house in Charleston in South Carolina. It has a semi-Iberian warmth to it which would make it fit in in South Munster (I dream of a Munster simultaneously re-Gaelicised and Iberianised) but nowhere else in the country I can think of.
Savannah GA has a more Iberian feel to it.
 

TW Tone

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There are also certain remarkable parallels you can draw between the Sons of Queen Sadhbh Amhaltach and a certain American agrarian secret society which dressed up in ghostly attire and conducted night raids but this is not a particularly flattering association to make and I only allude to it here for the sake of completeness.

The KKK was powerful way outside of the South, in states like Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky. Lots of lynchings in those states in the early 20th century.
 

TW Tone

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Can I offer this song for your consideration. Seems to have played a part too

......During the American Civil War, soldiers on both sides of the conflict thought of their wives and girlfriends back home when they heard the song "Lorena". One Confederate officer even attributed the South's defeat to the song. He reasoned that upon hearing the mournful ballad the soldiers grew so homesick that they lost their effectiveness as a fighting force.....


The bit about that song is nonsense, but it is certainly true that the CSA suffered greatly from desertions. Countless farm boys decided to walk home to tend their holdings.
The CSA never got on top of this.
And of course food, clothing and supplies were always in poor supply.
I was reading that most of the CSA rank and file at the Battle of Franklin, late in the war, fought barefoot. They lost that one.
 
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