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Question? How would Grotius or Vattel calibrate Brexit?

Dublin 4

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#1
Hugo Grotius

Hugo Grotius (1583–1645) [Hugo, Huigh or Hugeianus de Groot] was a towering figure in philosophy, political theory, law and associated fields during the seventeenth century and for hundreds of years afterwards.

His work ranged over a wide array of topics, though he is best known to philosophers today for his contributions to the natural law theories of normativity which emerged in the later medieval and early modern periods.




Hugo Grotius (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)


Hugo Grotius (/ˈɡroʊʃiəs/; 10 April 1583 – 28 August 1645), also known as Huig de Groot (Dutch: [ˈɦœyɣ də ɣroːt]) or Hugo de Groot (Dutch: [ˈɦyɣoː də ɣroːt]), was a Dutch jurist. Along with the earlier works of Francisco de Vitoria and Alberico Gentili, Grotius laid the foundations for international law, based on natural law.

A teenage intellectual prodigy, he was imprisoned for his involvement in the intra-Calvinist disputes of the Dutch Republic, but escaped hidden (appropriately) in a chest of books. He wrote most of his major works in exile in France.



Hugo Grotius - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




Emer de Vattel

Emer de Vattel (25 April 1714 – 28 December 1767) was a Swiss philosopher, diplomat, and legal expert whose theories laid the foundation of modern international law and political philosophy.



He was born in Couvet in Neuchâtel, Switzerland in 1714 and died in 1767 of edema. He was largely influenced in his philosophy by Gottfried Leibniz and Christian Wolff and strove to integrate their ideas into the legal and political system.

He is most famous for his 1758 work Le Droit des gens; ou, Principes de la loi naturelle appliqués à la conduite et aux affaires des nations et des souverains (in English, The Law of Nations or the Principles of Natural Law Applied to the Conduct and to the Affairs of Nations and of Sovereigns).



This work was his claim to fame and won him enough prestige to be appointed as a councilor to the court of King Augustus III of Saxony.

Emer de Vattel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

THE

LAW OF NATIONS

OR

PRINCIPLES OF THE LAW OF NATURE APPLIED TO THE CONDUCT AND AFFAIRS OF
NATIONS AND SOVEREIGNS


FROM THE FRENCH OF
MONSIEUR DE VATTEL.












J. B. Schneewind's "The Invention of Autonomy" has been hailed as a major interpretation of modern moral thought. Schneewind's narrative, however, elides several serious interpretive issues, particularly in the transition from late medieval to early modern thought.

This results in potentially distorted accounts of Thomas Aquinas, Hugo Grotius, and G. W. Leibniz. Since these thinkers play a crucial role in Schneewind's argument, uncertainty over their work calls into question at least some of Schneewind's larger agenda for the history of ethics.



At last the Dee lishy & Dee luxy process of Brexit is soon upon us.

I have given the best years of my life to see Ireland placed in a better context of either inside a Reformed EU/Trading Zone or indeed outside of the now exposed "Goldman Sachs Vulture Fund".

Brexit has given all Irish Patriots, inside & outside the Body Politic fresh momentum & we relish that.

We've always known that Intellectuals of past can be traduced by contemporary idealists & shills.

Grotius & Vattel were Giants in their day & helped map out the complex Legal Systems in use today.

Whilst respect for Borders, the definitive Effectiveness of Law, + War & Peace were foremost in much of their works & this may be seen as remote from the contemporary Brexit Process, we must also remember that Trade itself can be a form of conflict or indeed the instigation of same.

The relationships within Nations & between Nations is set to enter a new Vogue, indeed the untenable UK may also dissolve.

Britain has complex stages of negotiations ahead, some friendly shouldering of the Ball with their Allie Norway could be in play vis a vis the EFTA.

Red Lines will have to be drawn, flexibility & scope will have to be assessed.

Let's hope that Brexit will begin the process of Amelioration away from the Vulture Fund's recesses & into a new Age of Enlightenment.

Let's also hope that those inspirational greats of Old be remembered or will inter alia, instead some 21st Century materialist harum scarum & rehashed Keynisianism prevail???

We've already had 1 shambolic Sticking Plaster- the EU with it's Ludicrous Eurozone, we don't want more upheaval with a badly constructed British Trade Matrix...


Further Reading

World Trade Organization - Home page















 

Barbvision

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#2
Personally I dont think they could grasp their heads around why the EU was created in the first place. Well actually I can see them understanding the original concept of the EU, its the model we have now where nations give up their hard thought sovereignty over to unelected EU bureaucrats.
 

Tadhg Gaelach

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Some very thought provoking material there Dublin 4. I'll have to take some time to go through it all. Well done for bringing the philosophical aspect of Brexit to our attention.
 
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Dublin 4

Dublin 4

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Well the loser Scarecrows can't as they are opposed to the Victory Momentum & are Braindead :D

 

loulia vantur

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#8
The UK follows by and large the dualist tradition regarding the relationship between domestic and international Law. This means that international law obligations that the UK Government has undertaken (which exist within the sphere of international law) have to be ‘internalised’, ‘transposed’ within the domestic legal order by Parliament.

Section 20 et seq. of the Constitutional Reform and Government Act 2010 refer to the process of ‘internalisation’, of the international commitments in the domestic legal order. They do not affect the prerogative powers of Government to engage in treaty making at the international law level.
In addition in the case of the invocation of Article 50 there is no new Treaty involved. In fact the European Union Act 2011 reiterates (section 18): ‘Directly applicable or directly effective EU law (that is, the rights, powers, liabilities, obligations, restrictions, remedies and procedures referred to in section 2(1) of the European Communities Act 1972) falls to be recognised and available in law in the United Kingdom only by virtue of that Act or where it is required to be recognised and available in law by virtue of any other Act.

Article 50 TEU is such a provision.

Furthermore our discussion does not take place in the context of a capricious, arbitrary decision of the Government to leave the EU. In such a case the arguments for the necessity for the involvement of Parliament would have been stronger. Instead here the Government essentially implements the result of the referendum (in other words its decision to trigger Article 50 is not arbitrary and it has democratic legitimisation).

I think this would fit in well with their idealism
 
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Dublin 4

Dublin 4

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#9
Thanks.

You're clearly a Lawyer of some eminence or else simply extremely clever.

Welcome :)
 
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Dublin 4

Dublin 4

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Alternatively you copied & Pasted from this link- which was enterprising too :D


Article 50 TEU is the provision that governs the process of withdrawal of an existing EU Member State from the Union. The provision was introduced by the Treaty of Lisbon and it has not been used thus far. This provision is drafted in a way that is not too prescriptive with the clear intention for allowing a considerable margin for manoeuvring in the ensuing negotiations.



http://www.ejiltalk.org/brexit-arti...titutional-significance-of-the-uk-referendum/
 
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Dublin 4

Dublin 4

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#11