Political Irish | The Irish Politics & Current Affairs Website

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • Before posting anything about the COVID-19 virus, please read this first Click Here

How exactly did Dublin Irish die out?

Tadhg Gaelach

PI Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2016
Messages
59,626
Likes
55,404


Turf cutting, Glenasmole, Co. Dublin.


A very interesting article on the slow decline of the Irish language in Dublin city. It's often forgotten that Irish was heard on the streets of Dublin well into the 18th Century - and probably at least as much as English in the poorer districts. Jonathan Swift infamously remarked that, at least, if people could be compelled to speak English in the markets of Dublin, some "progress" could be made. There are a lot of other great articles on the Irish of Dublin and surrounding counties on this blog.

To this must be added the note from Ua Broin (1942, p. 185) that Irish was used by adults in 'Clondalkin and surrounding districts' in 1870 to communicate with migrant workers (harvesters) from Meath who had no English (in order for this to be the case they would have had to have been from North Meath). This is backed up by Healey (ibid., p. 14), who writes of '[an] old man who died at Old Bawn in 1926, aged 90 years, never heard local people speaking Irish, but often heard it from farm labourers from Co. Meath harvesting in the district.' It should be pointed out that Old Bawn is about 10km north of Castlekelly.

Dublin Irish: How exactly did Dublin Irish die out?
 
E

Eagle USA

Non Registered Member
GUEST
The Irish language seemingly survived within Dublin all the way up until the early 19th century. The language survived intact within areas surrounding Dublin for a while longer with Irish speaking communities found as far east as Meath.

Of interest is the fact that there would have been no great push for the replacement of the Irish language with English by the Norman and Plantagenet overseers of Dublin during the Medieval period, as just as with England, they spoke French and considered English to be an unattractive language. The Normans and Plantagenets had such contempt for the English language, that important descriptive terms, including the words for important military ranks come directly from French. Words such as beef and mutton derive from French, with the original Saxon English used to describe it's source, the cow and sheep.

The gradual erosion of Irish would likely have been the result of systematic Anglicanisation from the 17th century onwards. For the following three centuries, the way to move up the ranks of Irish society was to learn and master English. Many Irish people thus gave up their culture and language in exchange for their security and to put food on the table.

But it should never have been the case that the Irish people would have to make such a choice. Small island nations such as Iceland and Malta retain their languages, and yet today maintain a good standard of living. That Irish people ever had to make a choice between their heritage and their survival, shows just how devious, malicious and cruel the English can be as a people.
 

TW Tone

PI Member
Joined
May 5, 2019
Messages
8,516
Likes
13,944
Rathcairn is just a curio, however. It's just a few houses and a pub. It should be congratulated for holding onto some Irish in adverse circumstances, but it hasn't expanded. And its twin in Meath, Baile Ghib, has I believe lost the language.
 

An Fiach Ban

PI Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2018
Messages
2,246
Likes
4,868
Gibbstown has a single shop in it which I have stopped in on a couple of occasions, never heard Irish being spoken. An Gaeltacht sign still stands outside the town.
 

TW Tone

PI Member
Joined
May 5, 2019
Messages
8,516
Likes
13,944
Maidir leis an gceist suimiul a d'ardaigh TG, is cuimhin liom fado fado gur leigh me leabhar darab ainm An Ghaeilge i mBaile Atha Cliath.
Faraoir, ni cuimhin liom ainm an te a scriobh, agus ni feidir liom teacht air ar an ngreasan.

Is cuimhin liom go nduirt an t-udar go raibh an Ghaeilge a' cloisint sna Liberties chomh deanach le bliain Eiri Amach Emmett in 1803.
Go deimhin, ni fios an Dubs na daoine seo, no daoine a thainig isteach sa chathair o cheantair Gaeilge.

Ina theannta sin, sean-leabhar a bhiodh ag m'athair, go ndeanai Dia grasta air, na Malachy Horan Remembers,
Se seo cuimhni no memoirs fir a bhiodh ina chonai i sleibhte BhAC sa naou haois deag. Ta me beagnach cinnte go ndeir an fear seo Malachy Horan go raibh an Ghaeilge a' caint sa cheantar thart ar Thamhlacht sa 19u aois.

Ta leabhar speisiul eile ann a leigh me na blianta o shin, se sin cuntas James Bryson, Protastunach o Aontroim a ghabhadh i rith Eiri Amach 1798.
An pionos a chuireadh air na dibeart go Van Diemens Land. Bhi ar na hudarais e a sheoladh o Bheal Feirsde thios go dti calafort Phort Large chun an long a bhordail.
Turas ar tir a rinne Bryson o Bheal Feirsde, agus tugann se cur sios ar bailte mar Dun Dealgan 7rl inar fhan se i rith a thurais.
Ach an rud suntasach maidir leis an Ghaeilge na go ndeir Bryson gur chlois se an Ghaeilge a labhairt go nadurtha i gCo Chill Dara. Ma bhi an Ghaeilge beo i gCill Dara, ni folair na go raibh si beo i mBAC.

Dala an sceil, agus me ag deanamh cuardach ar an leabhar sin a luaigh me, thainig me ar an suiomh seo a leanas. Speisiul go leor: Is oinseach chruthanta i an bhean sin Sarah Carey.

 
OP
Tadhg Gaelach

Tadhg Gaelach

PI Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2016
Messages
59,626
Likes
55,404


That's an incredible collection of slanders and ignorance from the Anti-Irish Fake News Media. But, I suppose, what can we expect from pigs but grunts...
 
Joined
Oct 9, 2019
Messages
18
Likes
36
Interesting article here on the history of the Irish language in Dublin. How exactly did Dublin Irish die out?

The author claims that Irish was commonly spoken in Dublin up to the early 18th century by the poorer people, after which is went into decline. "Indeed, the relationship between Irish and English in Dublin city seems to have been essentially stable until the early eighteenth century: both languages would have been omnipresent throughout the city "

He also mentions a famous encounter between Eugene O'Curry (an Irish speaker from Clare) while working for the Ordance Survey with Uilliam Ó Reachtabhra, an elderly Irish speaker from Glenasmole in the Dublin mountains in 1837.
 
Top Bottom