Has antipope Francis 1st been excommunicated?

page61

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You can call him antipope which is amusing... but that is all it is..records say he is pope and nothing will change that .
 

SwordOfStCatherine

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I can say with a high degree of certainty beyond reasonable doubt ,based on the available public evidence, that Francis 1st is not a legitimate pope.

On this thread I have already outlined and demonstrated in detail the many reasons any rational observer would arrive at such a final conclusion.

The real problem Catholics face is what to do about this situation.
Sadly the bishops, bar one Bishop Rene Gracida, are doing nothing .

Therefore for ordinary practising lay Catholics the best solution is to ignore Francis 1st completely and revert to the status quo ante which continues to be the now severely degraded pontificate of Pope Benedict XVI who , fortunately as I write , still lives.
Okay fair enough, for the record I don't consider him a valid Pope, however I don't think either of us have the right to bind the consciences of others on this issue.
 

SwordOfStCatherine

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You can call him antipope which is amusing... but that is all it is..records say he is pope and nothing will change that .
There exists a huge possibility that Pope Benedict's resignation was made under duress plus there are other weird things about it- for instance he is still supposed to be Pope in some capacity. How can you have two Popes?

Than there is the extremely thorny issue as to whether a public heretic can be a legitimate Pope. There as valid arguments as to why he cannot be such.

Just because "The Irish Times" and RTE accept him as a legitimate Pope does not mean that he is.
 

Yazmina_is_back

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In this clip one of antipope Francises bishops named Sérgio Colombo, 64, of Bragança Paulista, Sao Paulo, Brazil performs voodoo where he worships the demon Orixás.

When are catholics going to wake up and understand that their church is under the control of a vile and cunning antipope.?

I enjoy reading your udates on the Christian Church and it's failing.
But the real question is when are Catholics going to wake up, realsie that Islam is the One True Faith and say the Shahada
 

page61

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There exists a huge possibility that Pope Benedict's resignation was made under duress plus there are other weird things about it- for instance he is still supposed to be Pope in some capacity. How can you have two Popes?

Than there is the extremely thorny issue as to whether a public heretic can be a legitimate Pope. There as valid arguments as to why he cannot be such.

Just because "The Irish Times" and RTE accept him as a legitimate Pope does not mean that he is.
All the above may be true but when the history books are written it will be forgotten and Francis will be named as Benedict successor .

Without getting into a religious debate on the two popes , from my perspective of not believing ,I tell myself that they can do whatever they want , who is going to pull them up on it, they are at the top of the ladder. They are accountable to nobody and as such can do whatever they want /change whatever rules they want. It is only if you believe that they will be punished by God or something in the next life that it would be relevant. and if you believe in god , you have nothing to be concerned about as he will look after it all when they come knocking on his/her door
 

The Field Marshal

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All the above may be true but when the history books are written it will be forgotten and Francis will be named as Benedict successor .

Without getting into a religious debate on the two popes , from my perspective of not believing ,I tell myself that they can do whatever they want , who is going to pull them up on it, they are at the top of the ladder. They are accountable to nobody and as such can do whatever they want /change whatever rules they want. It is only if you believe that they will be punished by God or something in the next life that it would be relevant. and if you believe in god , you have nothing to be concerned about as he will look after it all when they come knocking on his/her door
Wrong.
See below

You can call him antipope which is amusing... but that is all it is..records say he is pope and nothing will change that .
The records also said that Popes Clement V11 and_Benedict_XIII , to name but a few, and both elected by the cardinals, were first elected pope and subsequently declared to be antipopes.

.

Records mean little as demonstrated above.
Some truly idiotic catholics think there can be no more antipopes.

It is highly amusing that you think records can make an antipope a pope.
: :rolleyes:
 

page61

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Wrong.
See below



The records also said that Popes Clement V11 and_Benedict_XIII , to name but a few, and both elected by the cardinals, were first elected pope and subsequently declared to be antipopes.

.

Records mean little as demonstrated above.
Some truly idiotic catholics think there can be no more antipopes.

It is highly amusing that you think records can make an antipope a pope.
: :rolleyes:
I find the idea of people flocking around some person in a garb amusing ..he is a mere mortal , just like us all and is no different.
My point is...You are always going on about the anti pope and it obviously means something to you. but to the vast majority it means nothing, so when they look at the record in years to come, they will read Pope francis..they will not look at PI and see that you opposed him.

If you believe in heaven , do you think calling him anti pope will go down well with JC ?
 

Eirwatcher

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I enjoy reading your udates on the Christian Church and it's failing.
But the real question is when are Catholics going to wake up, realsie that Islam is the One True Faith and say the Shahada
True? The same faith that claims Jesus a prophet of God, while imputing Him a liar?

There was only One in human history absent of any hypocrisy, and there is only one reason and way He could do that.
 

The Field Marshal

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I find the idea of people flocking around some person in a garb amusing ..he is a mere mortal , just like us all and is no different.
My point is...You are always going on about the anti pope and it obviously means something to you. but to the vast majority it means nothing, so when they look at the record in years to come, they will read Pope francis..they will not look at PI and see that you opposed him.

If you believe in heaven , do you think calling him anti pope will go down well with JC ?
I am interested in the truth.

For a practising catholic like myself the identity of the true pope is importent, especially when two men now use that title.

There can only be one pope and it certainly is not Francis 1st who spouts formal heresy with nearly every fifth breath.
A formal heretic can not be a valid pope of the roman catholic church.

Therefore my only option relative to who the true pope is devolves back to the status quo ante which is Pope Benedict XV1 WHO STILL LIVES.

Yes, heaven exists and when I meet Jesus Christ then I have no worries whatever.
because I did not generate this confused and deeply unsatisfactory situation relative to the papacy which some [especially Archbishop Ganswein , Prefect of the Papal Household] even construe as a papal diarchy.

There have been plenty of antipopes like Francis 1st in the history of the roman catholic church.
They cause incredible confusion and deceit .
 
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The Field Marshal

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Invalid conclave and Benedict resigning due to threats of schism [from German church] and actual death threats.

A forced resignation is always invalid under canon law.


The above link claims the following :
"Jorge Mario Bergoglio and these cardinals were already excommunicated."

[Excommunicated for conspiracy to lobby /rig a papal election]
 
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Plasticpaddy

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It should now be fairly obvious to every well informed catholic that antipope Francis is now actually excommunicated from the catholic church.
Apart from the his uncanonical election [Pope Benedict being still a valid pope who failed to resign in the correct manner] antipope Francis has made many many heretical statements.

The council of Trent decreed that anybody promoting the idea that persons in a state of mortal sin should receive Holy Communion be excommunicated.
Antipope Francis and his heretical theological advisor Cardinal Kasper have been solidly promoting this idea of receiving communion in a state of mortal sin now for around two years.

According to the Council of Trent they are both excommunicated.

Does any other poster have thoughts on this?

Sources:
~The Council of Trent - Session 13~

CANON XI.-lf any one saith, that faith alone is a sufficient preparation for receiving the sacrament of the most holy Eucharist; let him be anathema. And for fear lest so great a sacrament may be received unworthily, and so unto death and condemnation, this holy Synod ordains and declares, that sacramental confession, when a confessor may be had, is of necessity to be made beforehand, by those whose conscience is burthened with mortal sin, how contrite even soever they may think themselves. But if any one shall presume to teach, preach, or obstinately to assert, or even in public disputation to defend the contrary, he shall be thereupon excommunicated.

https://w2.vatican.va/content/dam/f...sortazione-ap_20160319_amoris-laetitia_en.pdf

"Hence it is can no longer simply be said that all those in any “irregular” situation are living in a state of mortal sin and are deprived of sanctifying grace. More is involved here than mere ignorance of the rule. A subject may know full well the rule, yet have great diffi- culty in understanding “its inherent values”,339 or be in a concrete situation which does not allow him or her to act differently and decide other- wise without further sin. "


" Yet conscience can do more than recognize that a given situation does not correspond objectively to the overall demands of the Gospel. It can also recognize with sincerity and honesty what for now is the most generous response which
can be given to God, and come to see with a cer- tain moral security that it is what God himself is asking amid the concrete complexity of one’s limits, while yet not fully the objective ideal
. "
Yeah the pope excommunicated himself its all clever stuff.Have you ever read the history of the popes,what evil bastards,why are you worked up about the most kind and humane person that's been a pope ? Certainly he is compared to the murderers and tyrants that have popes in the past.
 

The Field Marshal

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