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Tuco Salamanca

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Aye, but the only one I have ever returned to is the Gospel of Thomas. What is it about the Gnostic gospels which makes you believe orthodox Christianity is a scam?
The Gnostic Corpus is of an esoteric nature with an emphasis on wisdom and insight.

The canonical gospels are primarily about bamboozling the plebs with parlor tricks and insisting on a blind faith.
 

Tuco Salamanca

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What makes the Gnostic Gospels so reliable?
Even if every claim about the figure of Jesus in the Gnostic gospels was fiction -- even if he didn't exist -- they would still be of immense spiritual and philosophical value.

Could the same be said of the canonical gospels?
 

SwordOfStCatherine

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The Gnostic Corpus is of an esoteric nature with an emphasis on wisdom and insight.

The canonical gospels are primarily about bamboozling the plebs with parlor tricks and insisting on a blind faith.
Actually the Gnostic corpus is often wild irrationalism and the question of Faith versus Knowledge was not actually a part of the struggle between the "Gnostics" and the Proto-Catholic Church, the Church Fathers greatly valued "Gnosis". Irenaeus's book is titled "The refutation of Gnosis so-called". Experiential knowledge of the Divine was very important to Bishop Irenaeus. If there was anyone who put the stress on Faith alone in Christian Antiquity it was Marcion of Sinope- who is sometimes lumped in with the "Gnostics" (ignorantly I think).
 

Eriugena

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Even if every claim about the figure of Jesus in the Gnostic gospels was fiction -- even if he didn't exist -- they would still be of immense spiritual and philosophical value.
The Neoplatonists, notably Plotinus, didn't think so.
Could the same be said of the canonical gospels?
Yes, certainly.

But earlier you said it was a "scam", yet you have not given any reasons for thinking that.
 

Tuco Salamanca

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Actually the Gnostic corpus is often wild irrationalism and the question of Faith versus Knowledge was not actually a part of the struggle between the "Gnostics" and the Proto-Catholic Church, the Church Fathers greatly valued "Gnosis". Irenaeus's book is titled "The refutation of Gnosis so-called". Experiential knowledge of the Divine was very important to Bishop Irenaeus. If there was anyone who put the stress on Faith alone in Christian Antiquity it was Marcion of Sinope- who is sometimes lumped in with the "Gnostics" (ignorantly I think).
The Nag Hammadi contains its fair share, IMO, of fantastical nonsense.

But it also contains texts like the Gospel of truth.
 
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Tuco Salamanca

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The Neoplatonists, notably Plotinus, didn't think so.
Plotinus had a dog in the fight.
The neo-Platonists were moralistic bores, like Plato himself .
Gnosis/enlightenment has zilch to do with conduct and everything to do with knowledge.

(While it's highly possible, I'm not entirely convinced that the systemising bore Plato was the originator of the Hellenic motifs -- Demiurge etc -- that influenced Gnosticism)

Yes, certainly.

But earlier you said it was a "scam", yet you have not given any reasons for thinking that.
The authority of the canonical gospels hinges on the miraculous claims contained therein. Without these claims you're left with nothing but trite banality.

But if one insists on the veracity of blatently obvious nonsense claims neatly encapsulted within a very, very convenient narrative structure more akin to an airport novel, that's their prerogative.
 
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