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Orlared Gaeltacht 2020 | "Gaeltacht regions reduced to Indian reservations" | TG4 documentary

TW Tone

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The language is only part of the cultural heritage of an area
Other parts are the way people lived
The way they worked at what they ate and the build heritage.,
These Gaelic advocates are great at advocating for the language in the form of grants etc.
The scholars
Then come and they eat the best of cheap food that Lidl and Aldi have to offer
And stay in houses which are a blight on the cultural landscape and more suited in suburbia
Than a Gaeltacht area on the west coast of Ireland.

This sounds awful snobbery, but the fact is that is a peasant culture.
The Irish speakers of the Middle Ages, even into the Seventeenth Century, encompassed all social classes. That is how healthy languages evolve. Spanish had the muledrivers and campesinos, but it also had Isabel and Velázquez. Prince and pauper spoke the Irish language too.
This culture, in the case of Irish, was focused on literature and genealogy, too much so for its own good. It did little in the visual arts.
Hence, when the Gaelic order was smashed in the seventeenth century, there was no upper class left speaking the language. And as something of an urban middle class emerged later, it was anglophone.

Same sort of thing happened with Quechua in South America.

What was left was a peasant culture, focused on the oral, with little access to technology. This culture is interesting, but minor. No one is ever going to adopt it.
 
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TW Tone

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A lot of what you say is true, I live between Dublin and the Donegal Gaeltacht ,
There is an annexe to I think Galway university here staffed by career gaelgoers
Who think they are above everybody else, th8nk of themselves as some kind of
Gaelic experts, they know Gaelic better than anyone they think, they going around like college students with big baggy jumpers and black clothes, the Gaelic intelligencia. A lot of it is jobs fir the boys.

we were at a do )20 years ago hosted by the local gaelgoers
My friend was looking for the toilet and asked one of the attendees
The person would not answer because he asked in English
That’s fair enough you want people to speak Gaelic
At the end of the night the same the same person who
Wouldn’t speak to my fried was speaking to his friend
About getting a taxi in his Gaelic .
He said
Ta me Gaula tryal a taxi.

Earlier I took a swipe at Gaeltacht folks, but it is also my impression that English-speaking people living near a Gaeltacht can be very hostile to the language and its speakers.
At least I have heard this complaint from Native Irish speakers.
Not hard to imagine how the middle-class in Salthill would react to a bunch of Ceathru Rua leads whooping and hollering.
 

Tadhg Gaelach

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This sounds awful snobbery, but the fact is that is a peasant culture.
The Irish speakers of the Middle Ages, even into the Seventeenth Century, encompassed alsl social classes. That is how healthy languages evolve. Spanish had the muledrivers and campesinos, but it also had Isabel and Velázquez. Prince and pauper spoke the Irish language too.
This culture, in the case of Irish, was focused on literature and genealogy, too much so for its own good. It did little in the visual arts.
Hence, when the Gaelic order was smashed in the seventeenth century, there was no upper class left speaking the language. And as something of an urban middle class emerged later, it was anglophone.

What was left was a peasant culture, focused on the oral, with little access to technology. This culture is interesting, but minor. No one is ever going to adopt it.


It will be possible to build a new Gaelic aristocracy. The mistake the Irish Language Movement has always made is to fetishize "authentic peasant culture." Every dynamic culture needs a cultural aristocracy, i.e. those who are capable of elevating it to greatness. English no longer has such an aristocracy, which is why English culture is becoming Twitter Culture. The French are generally doing better.
 
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Tadhg Gaelach

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Many years ago an activist called Desmond Fennell (an bhfuil se beo fos?) Promoted his idea of what he called Iar-Chonnachta . West Connaught. As far as I understand, his idea was that Irish speakers from throughout the country should relocate to the Connemara Gaeltacht and build it up.
Didn't work.
Nothing does in the case of reviving Irish.


Bringing in outsiders to very closely knit rural communities was always a daft idea. The future of Irish will have to be built by people outside the Gaeltacht. I'm glad we have the Gaeltachts, but you can't build future Gaelic culture on them. Those people are too set in their ways, too suspicious of outsiders, and most of them don't even see any need for Irish outside their own little circles.
 

TW Tone

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I will be possible to build a new Gaelic aristocracy. The mistake the Irish Language Movement has always made is to fetishize "authentic peasant culture." Every dynamic culture needs a cultural aristocracy, i.e. those who are capable of elevating it to greatness. English no longer has such an aristocracy, which is why English culture is becoming Twitter Culture. The French are generally doing better.

The hatred of 'Peig' has in most cases been based on bigotry and ignorance. A large proportion of those who spout it have never read the book. Indeed I would think no one under 40 faced Peig on the Leaving Cert curriculum.

But there is an honest point to be made. What meeting point could Peig and her culture have with young people from Donnycarney and Dundalk? She is as alien to them as a shaman from the Amazon.
 

Tadhg Gaelach

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The hatred of 'Peig' has in most cases been based on bigotry and ignorance. A large proportion of those who spout it have never read the book. Indeed I would think no one under 40 faced Peig on the Leaving Cert curriculum.

But there is an honest point to be made. What meeting point could Peig and her culture have with young people from Donnycarney and Dundalk? She is as alien to them as a shaman from the Amazon.


Very true. Peig is actually a very good book, but it's a book that will appeal to the intellectual mind rather than the general reader of the sort we have these days (most of them only read tabloids and magazines anyway). Our biggest problem really is how dumbed down Western populations are in general. And that's why I have no doubt that aiming for the lowest common denominator is not they way forward.
 

TW Tone

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are you on drugs ?

by the year 2050 a massive majority of all French speakers will be Third World types.

Well Gaeilge has many problems, but not that one.


Very true. Peig is actually a very good book, but it's a book that will appeal to the intellectual mind rather than the general reader of the sort we have these days (most of them only read tabloids and magazines anyway). Our biggest problem really is how dumbed down Western populations are in general. And that's why I have no doubt that aiming for the lowest common denominator is not they way forward.

I went into Easons one day and bought a copy of Peig, to see what all the whining was about. It wasn't on the Leaving syllabus for me way back in Disco Days. I think the cashier would have looked less weirdly at me had I bought pornography.
Leigh me an teacs agus bhain me taitneamh as Gaeilge mhiliis Pheig. Ach is leabhar fior-ghruama duairc e.

Its a somber read. That shouldn't disqualify it, tho. Dickens' Hard Times was on the English syllabus for years, and that's a downer too. I suppose comparative literature scholars could peg Peig into the whole Naturalist literary movement, whether Sayers was aware of it or not. These authors focused in an unromanticized way on the daily life of the poor. Some of Dickens, Thomas Hardy, Emile Zola, Steinbeck, our own George Moore--none of them beach books.

Now that's nuair a bheidh an Ghaeilge slan....
When people buy a copy of Peig to read on the beach....
 
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Kershaw

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I will be possible to build a new Gaelic aristocracy. The mistake the Irish Language Movement has always made is to fetishize "authentic peasant culture." Every dynamic culture needs a cultural aristocracy, i.e. those who are capable of elevating it to greatness. English no longer has such an aristocracy, which is why English culture is becoming Twitter Culture. The French are generally doing better.

guy is saying in this that as a result of the gaelscoilenna, Irish became the language of the affluent and not the poor but I think a lot of them became shitlibs. There's a sizable shitlib gaelgoir community on twitter who want open borders and the rest.

 

TW Tone

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Can't trust self-reporting of language ability. Notoriously unreliable.
So while I did know that An Rinn was hanging in there, I'm a skeptic. What does 'daily use' mean?

The language still clings on in the even smaller Rath Cairn, by the way.
 

@graceland.com

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Can't trust self-reporting of language ability. Notoriously unreliable.
So while I did know that An Rinn was hanging in there, I'm a skeptic. What does 'daily use' mean?

The language still clings on in the even smaller Rath Cairn, by the way.
Yes what does daily use mean, I am sitting in the gaeltacht as I write and here most people do speak it daily. . Most people in the shops here will speak to you in Gaelic first. But young people are different it is not cool., better to be speaking in a mid Atlantic accent like all the people on u tube.
A lot of people don't appreciate it till they go abroad.
As I have said previously on this topic my wife has 5 brothers and a sister in the states. I mentioned how they all speak Gaelic to each other all the time after being I the states 20 years.
Her father died 2 months ago and when it's was the months mind mass they were in the US and so couldn't attend the mass. So What they did instead of attending the mass was the 6 in America and 2 here and the mother had conference call/meeting with all involved and they said the rosary in Gaelic on the conference call.
 
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