Face Masks to be made mandatory in Ireland as phase 4 reopening is suspended.

The Field Marshal

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What has Manichaeism to do with this?
Why do I need to prove that? Where did I claim to have privileged access to the divine intellect? Just study your Bible, the Church Fathers and the writings of other great saints. What kind of Catholic are you, if one at all?
No I didn't say that. I said that having rejected the Kingship of Christ, they fall back under the dominion of Satan. I refer you back to the scriptural passage I quoted earlier, especially this: "all the kingdoms of the world . . . have been made over to me, and I may give them to whomsoever I please." You might also like to familiarise yourself with St. Augustine City of God, namely the central theme concerning the irreconcilable opposition between the City of Man and the City of God, namely “Two lives built two Cities—the earthly, which is built up by the love of self to the contempt of God, and the heavenly, which is built up by the love of God to the contempt of self.” City of God, XIV, 28. The mark of the worldly is "the love of self to the contempt of God", hence the dominion over this world by Satan who personifies the love of self to the contempt of God, "Non serviam!"
In a letter from Pope St. Gregory VII to Hermann of Metz he says this: So the views I have expressed hitherto are entirely in line with scripture, Doctors of the Church, and sainted Popes. That someone who claims to be a Catholic finds all this controversial is thoroughly mystifying. Hmm, I wonder.
Why would I have to do that? You may have missed it but why don't you just check out the results of recent referenda where a lot of deeply deluded people think they can revise divine and natural law. That might be a good place to start, if you are so interested in what goes on in the minds of others.
You need to understand that St. Augustine’s thinking was extremely warped and twisted due to his perverted degenerate way of life prior to his conversion to Catholicism.
He was also a believer in Manichism , the belief that flesh is evil etc.
Poor St Augustine never fully cleansed himself of his guilt hatred for the flesh and the world.
The sad thing is the mans erroneous theology infected the catholic world and was devoured by a celibate clergy who saw in these guilt laden writings oftentimes a reflection of themselves.
So be careful concerning taking St Augustine too seriously.

I say this because your attitude to the world is very Manichaean whether you are aware of it or not.

Indeed the foul results of St Augustine’s Manichaean errors still reverberate in the polarized positions many Catholics adopt concerning this daft and artificial division between pre/ post Vat 2.

But this thread concerns human freedom and mask wearing .
I wear one but support the right not to be legally obliged to do so.
What is your position on the matter.?
 

Done For

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One again you have summed up the situation perfectly!

I gasp at the sheer audacity of it and can only ask how the hell this has come to pass? All the lessons of the need for justice and democracy painfully learnt over the centuries have been cast aside and we find ourselves under the tyrannical thumb of what appears to be commercial interests and subjugation of governments by the same.

Put simply we longer have a functioning democracy!
I think it has 'come to pass' because a lot of people were genuinely very scared.

At the begining the figures being mentioned and the images being shown suggested a healthy person would be walking down the street, come within a metre of someone else and collapse on the ground.

That's genuinely scary. But it turned out to be nothing of the sort and now the authorities are too embarrassed to admit how wrong they got it.

As usual the media have contributed negatively. Their over-reporting of every case, their lack of context on those who died, their lack of cost/benefit analysis on the measures is just another example of their ineptitude and malice.

I don't watch or listen to the MSM but it's not completely avoidable and I have to say when I come across it the daily reporting of cases is surreal.

Unfortunately another reason it has 'come to pass' is that a lot of people like telling other people how to behave. It's a power trip for them.
 

The Field Marshal

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The death rate in the population is so far considerably lower than during a bad flu season such as 1968-69.

The mental and social damage you refer to is not being caused by the virus, it is being caused by the overreaction to the virus.

You didnt refer to the economic damage by the way which has entirely been caused by the overreaction to the virus.
The death rate is lower because of the extreme measures taken by govt to reduce viral transmission.
Had these measures not been taken the death rates would have been considerably higher.

There is a correlation between high case numbers and high death numbers especially in the elderly.
The economic damage is devasting.
I myself have been a victim of that.
 

The Field Marshal

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I think it has 'come to pass' because a lot of people were genuinely very scared.

At the begining the figures being mentioned and the images being shown suggested a healthy person would be walking down the street, come within a metre of someone else and collapse on the ground.

That's genuinely scary. But it turned out to be nothing of the sort and now the authorities are too embarrassed to admit how wrong they got it.

As usual the media have contributed negatively. Their over-reporting of every case, their lack of context on those who died, their lack of cost/benefit analysis on the measures is just another example of their ineptitude and malice.

I don't watch or listen to the MSM but it's not completely avoidable and I have to say when I come across it the daily reporting of cases is surreal.

Unfortunately another reason it has 'come to pass' is that a lot of people like telling other people how to behave. It's a power trip for them.
If the measures had not been taken and the virus allowed let rip then death numbers would have been very very much higher.
 

The Field Marshal

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We never did have one! As for the Very Covid19 Self Isolating Prison (paid for by the Covid 19 criminal), it's high time that we woke up to this gross medical dishonesty. Cardiology appointments by telephone for a blocked artery? Empty wards in Beaumont as far as I am aware. Destroyed hospitality industry and a "minister" for health whose negative test came inside of a half a dozen hours... You couldn't make this stuff up!
People are not going to hospital because the fear factor associated with covid is high.
No point in getting indignant.
The govt measures adopted since March have saved many lives and the use of face masks will save many more.

Now cover up .
 

Charlottesweb

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No it is way way more than a minor inconvenience.

This Covid disease will pass in what is a short period of time in the overall scheme of things. History will look back on it the same way it looks back on the 1957 Asian flu pandemic or the 1967 Hong Kong flu pandemic, sure they were bad at the time but life went on.

What we never in those cases was the loss of liberties we are seeing today.
The Government dictating facemask and other measures with no Parliamentary debate and no public debate and without any attempt to present any compelling scientific case to be subject to cross examination by a wide variety of medical and scientific experts is tyrannical and dangerous.

If the Government believes it has a compelling weight of evidence to support these measures then it should present this evidence to the population and if they stand up to scrutiny then it will have no difficulty getting public consent for whatever measures it calls for.

Government has specifically NOT done this.

It has introduced sweeping measures without any due legislative process and is enforcing these with the full weight of the law and with an unending propaganda campaign where any dissenting voices are silenced. This is the same mode of tyrannical Governance employed by the likes of Stalin and Hitler and is anathema to the liberal Government system we have evolved in the west.

We should draw a line in the sand and say no to tyrannical Government, if we give them a yard here they will never give it back.
It is a slight inconvenience to protect other people, to wear a mask in a shop. Its not tyrannical nor is it a slippery slope to a north korean style dictatorship. You think michael martin or any of our politicians want to be that dictator?

I believe you are being hysterical and hyperbolic, seeing nefarious conspiracies where they dont exist. On this we fundamentally disagree so i dont see that there is much point. Only time will tell who is right unfortunately.
 

Sham Óg

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You need to understand that St. Augustine’s thinking was extremely warped and twisted due to his perverted degenerate way of life prior to his conversion to Catholicism.
He was also a believer in Manichism , the belief that flesh is evil etc.
Poor St Augustine never fully cleansed himself of his guilt hatred for the flesh and the world.
The sad thing is the mans erroneous theology infected the catholic world and was devoured by a celibate clergy who saw in these guilt laden writings oftentimes a reflection of themselves.
So be careful concerning taking St Augustine too seriously.

I say this because your attitude to the world is very Manichaean whether you are aware of it or not.

Indeed the foul results of St Augustine’s Manichaean errors still reverberate in the polarized positions many Catholics adopt concerning this daft and artificial division between pre/ post Vat 2.

But this thread concerns human freedom and mask wearing .
I wear one but support the right not to be legally obliged to do so.
What is your position on the matter.?
If the government told you to keep your mask on when you are having a bit of slap and tickle, as the Canadians were advised to do, would you keep it up? I mean on?
 

Done For

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If the measures had not been taken and the virus allowed let rip then death numbers would have been very very much higher.
We know that (although there is debate on whether in the long-term the figures would vary much).

And we know if driving was banned there would be no road deaths. We're critiquing the proportionality of the measures weighing up against fundamental liberty, economic cost (this is all going to cost a fortune and there's only one group of people who will be paying for it), and the lost early detection for other illnesses which also kill people, and the psychological damage of the fear being pushed on people everyday and the psychological damage of walking around like a slave smelling your breath every time you want to buy a loaf of bread, and the psychological damage of forced isolation.

The response has been widely disproportionate.
 

Charlottesweb

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We never did have one! As for the Very Covid19 Self Isolating Prison (paid for by the Covid 19 criminal), it's high time that we woke up to this gross medical dishonesty. Cardiology appointments by telephone for a blocked artery? Empty wards in Beaumont as far as I am aware. Destroyed hospitality industry and a "minister" for health whose negative test came inside of a half a dozen hours... You couldn't make this stuff up!
Empty wards in beaumont due to a covid outbreak...i.e. they were shut down for infection control.

As to stephen donnellys test, do you not think that all the stops should be pulled out to get his results back? If he was positive, the whole cabinet would have to self isolate, in the middle of a resurgence of the virus. He would have to have his results back asap.
 

The Field Marshal

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It is a slight inconvenience to protect other people, to wear a mask in a shop. Its not tyrannical nor is it a slippery slope to a north korean style dictatorship. You think michael martin or any of our politicians want to be that dictator?

I believe you are being hysterical and hyperbolic, seeing nefarious conspiracies where they dont exist. On this we fundamentally disagree so i dont see that there is much point. Only time will tell who is right unfortunately.
The problem is that people don’t like to be inconvenienced.
Masks are also uncomfortable and dehumanizing.
But it’s a small price to pay until our world can get sufficient weapons to neutralize this very dangerous attacker.

The masks etc are a defensive measure in war against an enemy that is invisible and hidden.
Terrible but we will win out I am certain.
 

The Field Marshal

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We know that (although there is debate on whether in the long-term the figures would vary much).

And we know if driving was banned there would be no road deaths. We're critiquing the proportionality of the measures weighing up against fundamental liberty, economic cost (this is all going to cost a fortune and there's only one group of people who will be paying for it), and the lost early detection for other illnesses which also kill people, and the psychological damage of the fear being pushed on people everyday and the psychological damage of walking around like a slave smelling your breath every time you want to buy a loaf of bread, and the psychological damage of forced isolation.

The response has been widely disproportionate.
Yes.
There are problems .
What other way could it be.?
The entire world has been convulsed and blindsided.

But humanity must adapt and mistakes are going to happen.
Govts must be given slack to account for this.
 

The Field Marshal

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If the government told you to keep your mask on when you are having a bit of slap and tickle, as the Canadians were advised to do, would you keep it up? I mean on?
You clearly do not take the virus seriously.
Indeed all your responses on the subject seem to be emotionally driven and not informed by the facts
I recommend that you study this problem with due diligence.
 
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