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Eurovision 2016

Tadhg Gaelach

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The Tartars were in Crimea back as far as the 1400s.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_Tatars

At that time Russia was a fraction of the size it is today and it was hundreds of years after the Tartars were established in Crimea that the Russians invaded for the first (but not last) time.
Actually, Kiev is the ancient capital of Rus, going back to the 8th century or so. But, I'm surprised that you are so supportive of Turkic Muslim invaders in Europe.
 

The Potato Mystic

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Tartars are raw material in the West's attempt to destabilise Crimea just as the Ulster Scot types served that purpose for the benefit of the Brits. I'm sure Western pyromaniacs, now in conjunction with Turkey, are busy giving encouragement to Tatar militants. The idea the West is in tears over the "plight" of Tatars is funny stuff. "Freedom loving peoples" Stop it, please, lol
 

Tadhg Gaelach

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Tartars are raw material in the West's attempt to destabilise Crimea just as the Ulster Scot types served that purpose for the benefit of the Brits. I'm sure Western pyromaniacs, now in conjunction with Turkey, are busy giving encouragement to Tatar militants. The idea the West is in tears over the "plight" of Tatars is funny stuff. "Freedom loving peoples" Stop it, please, lol

Yes, NATO was full of support for Muslims in Bosnia and Kosovo also, when they proved useful in the breakup of Yugoslavia and its annexation into the Anglo-Zionist empire.
 

TheWexfordInn

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Actually, Kiev is the ancient capital of Rus, going back to the 8th century or so. But, I'm surprised that you are so supportive of Turkic Muslim invaders in Europe.
When people have lived in a land for 700 years I dont call them invaders any more. If we are worried about invaders we should be very concerned about Russia, the biggest invaders the planet has ever seen, as evidenced by the size of Russia 500 years ago versus its size today.
 

Tadhg Gaelach

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When people have lived in a land for 700 years I dont call them invaders any more. If we are worried about invaders we should be very concerned about Russia, the biggest invaders the planet has ever seen, as evidenced by the size of Russia 500 years ago versus its size today.

So you are not against large Turkic Muslim populations in Europe?
 

TheWexfordInn

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So you are not against large Turkic Muslim populations in Europe?
I am opposed to large Muslim populations in Western Europe where they have no historical footprint and no cultural connections.
Where Muslim populations have existed continuously for many hundreds of years Im certainly not going to deny them the right to stay there.
 

TheWexfordInn

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Wth? The Eurovision thread has become a history thread!
Well the connection started when someone brought up the Ukrainian entry on the first page of the thread and once the Ukrainian entry had been brought up it was I think reasonable to point out that the Ukrainian entry is sung by a Crimean native singing about the oppression by Russia of her people who were established in Crimea long before the Russians turned up like a bad penny.
 

Tadhg Gaelach

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I am opposed to large Muslim populations in Western Europe where they have no historical footprint and no cultural connections.
Where Muslim populations have existed continuously for many hundreds of years Im certainly not going to deny them the right to stay there.

Indeed, but as far as I know, the Tartars only make up about 10% of the Crimean population. Why do you think they should have a veto over Crimea being re-united with Russia? After all, there was a referendum and the majority voted to re-join the Russian motherland. Do you think the Tartars would get a better deal from the Neo-Nazis in Kiev?
 

Tadhg Gaelach

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Well the connection started when someone brought up the Ukrainian entry on the first page of the thread and once the Ukrainian entry had been brought up it was I think reasonable to point out that the Ukrainian entry is sung by a Crimean native singing about the oppression by Russia of her people who were established in Crimea long before the Russians turned up like a bad penny.

Do you not think that that is really just a propaganda effort on the part of the Neo-Nazis in Kiev?
 

TheWexfordInn

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Indeed, but as far as I know, the Tartars only make up about 10% of the Crimean population. Why do you think they should have a veto over Crimea being re-united with Russia? After all, there was a referendum and the majority voted to re-join the Russian motherland. Do you think the Tartars would get a better deal from the Neo-Nazis in Kiev?
Yes the Tartars are a minority in Crimea mostly because Stalin ethnically cleansed them out during the war, that combined with the number of Russian planters who were transplanted into Crimea by the Russian invaders/occupiers.
Some Tartars remained in Crimea all along but many of those Tartars in Crimea now are descendants of those Tartars ethnically cleansed out by Stalin who returned to Crimea when Ukraine won independence from the Soviet Union. The singer of the Ukrainian entry tonight is one such returnee.
The numbers of Tartars in Crimea had been increasing steadily from Ukrainian independence right up to the Russian annexation when they started leaving to escape Russian oppression.
 

Tadhg Gaelach

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Yes the Tartars are a minority in Crimea mostly because Stalin ethnically cleansed them out during the war, that combined with the number of Russian planters who were transplanted into Crimea by the Russian invaders/occupiers.
Some Tartars remained in Crimea all along but many of those Tartars in Crimea now are descendants of those Tartars ethnically cleansed out by Stalin who returned to Crimea when Ukraine won independence from the Soviet Union. The singer of the Ukrainian entry tonight is one such returnee.
The numbers of Tartars in Crimea had been increasing steadily from Ukrainian independence right up to the Russian annexation when they started leaving to escape Russian oppression.

So, you agree they are a minority and they have no right (or ability) to prevent the majority from re-uniting with Russia. By the way, Ukraine didn't "win its independence" from the USSR. It declared that it was no longer part of the USSR, and that was that. It seems to me that you are absorbing a lot of propaganda from the British media without even thinking about it.
 
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