• This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn more.

Eschatology and Irish Catholicism.

Joined
Oct 30, 2015
Messages
6,993
Likes
8,083
Points
313
#1
Even though I had no right to be at all living as I was a grotty Loyalist council estate as a teenager and even as a little girl I was a terrible snob and one form this snobbery took was looking down on the "End Times" obsession of a lot of Evangelicals, sneering at such and believing it is foolish to be on the look out for signs of the end of this aeon is actually fairly common among Old Light Presbyterians, Confessional Lutherans and High Church Anglicans (who should never be confused with Anglo-Catholics). When I left my Belfast bubble by going to England one of the things that really staggered me was to find out that very many Catholics and Byzantine Orthodox were also obsessed with things related to the End Times. To be honest it is still something that I'm not entirely comfortable with even though my husband takes a keen interest in these things (if his colleagues at work knew about this I think it would deeply shock them).

Catholics, Eastern Christians and the more intelligent Protestants all believe that the Antichrist will re-build the Temple in Jerusalem from which he will reign until for three years until Our Lord returns and destroys him. Therefore the Zionist capture of Jerusalem was and is for them an extremely important "Sign of the Times". To be honest Zionist control of Jerusalem along with Transhumanism make me wonder if we are living in the run-up to the Antichrist sometimes. Both my husband and the Russian student we know here are finding Trump's latest blunder deeply ominous (she actually finds it quite terrifying).

Something though I have observed here is that bourgeois Irish Catholics whether "Conservative" or "Liberal" haven't the slightest interest in "End Times" speculation while as often grass roots small farming and working class ones can be gullible even to the wildest stuff put forward on this subject. Does that fit in with other people's experiences on this issue here?
 
Last edited:

Tadhg Gaelach

Donator
Premium Account
Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2016
Messages
25,079
Likes
21,637
Points
313
#2
Well, I must say that none of that stuff had any part in the Catholic upbringing I got, but in recent times my mother has been coming out with "end of the world" stuff that she gets on the US Catholic channel EWTN. This channel is located in Alabama and I notice that a lot of the presenters are converted Evangelicals, so I guess that's where the influence is coming from.
 
OP
OP
SwordOfStCatherine
Joined
Oct 30, 2015
Messages
6,993
Likes
8,083
Points
313
#3
Well, I must say that none of that stuff had any part in the Catholic upbringing I got, but in recent times my mother has been coming out with "end of the world" stuff that she gets on the US Catholic channel EWTN. This channel is located in Alabama and I notice that a lot of the presenters are converted Evangelicals, so I guess that's where the influence is coming from.
What about Fatima stuff?

I have a book shelf of stuff I could never take seriously about Fatima sent to me by my mum in law that if they came from anyone else would have had their paper long recycled by now.
 

Myles O'Reilly

Donator
Premium Account
Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2017
Messages
4,123
Likes
3,360
Points
263
Location
Ireland
#4
Ms Catherine do you take the wafer in the hand or the tongue? I was at a COI service on Sunday and stuck my tongue out and the Rev didn't know what to do so he just thrust it into my hand. Perhaps that's indicative that receiving in the mouth has died out.
 
OP
OP
SwordOfStCatherine
Joined
Oct 30, 2015
Messages
6,993
Likes
8,083
Points
313
#5
Ms Catherine do you take the wafer in the hand or the tongue? I was at a COI service on Sunday and stuck my tongue out and the Rev didn't know what to do so he just thrust it into my hand. Perhaps that's indicative that receiving in the mouth has died out.
Of course on the tongue and I try to receive Communion from Priests rather than "Eucharistic Ministers". The only time also I venture out with some make up or perfume is when I'm going to Mass. These are one of the reasons that I like going to SSPX Parishes- the proper way in them is just taken as a given.

I'm also against frequent Communion.
 
OP
OP
SwordOfStCatherine
Joined
Oct 30, 2015
Messages
6,993
Likes
8,083
Points
313
#6
Well, I must say that none of that stuff had any part in the Catholic upbringing I got, but in recent times my mother has been coming out with "end of the world" stuff that she gets on the US Catholic channel EWTN. This channel is located in Alabama and I notice that a lot of the presenters are converted Evangelicals, so I guess that's where the influence is coming from.
The people who actually worst or best depending on your point of view for this stuff are actually not Evangelicals but the Eastern Orthodox. There were actual riots in Greece in either the late 90s or early 00s over the introduction of an ID card because many of the Orthodox Christians there saw it as a step towards the Mark of the Beast. In the Covenant in Romania where my friend is now an Nun in they don't accept gifts that have barcodes because they see them as a massive step towards the Mark of the Beast, Esphigmenou the monastery on Mount Athos which St Gregory of Palamas who is one of the most important Saints in Byzantine Orthodoxy came from and is now Old Calendarist has the same policy.
 

Tadhg Gaelach

Donator
Premium Account
Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2016
Messages
25,079
Likes
21,637
Points
313
#7
What about Fatima stuff?

I have a book shelf of stuff I could never take seriously about Fatima sent to me by my mum in law that if they came from anyone else would have had their paper long recycled by now.

I suppose all that is there, but I can't remember anything about it when I was growing up. I'm sure nobody mentioned it in school and I never heard a priest mentioning it. My father certainly didn't and my mother has only started talking about it since she started watching American TV.
 

Tadhg Gaelach

Donator
Premium Account
Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2016
Messages
25,079
Likes
21,637
Points
313
#8
The people who actually worst or best depending on your point of view for this stuff are actually not Evangelicals but the Eastern Orthodox. There were actual riots in Greece in either the late 90s or early 00s over the introduction of an ID card because many of the Orthodox Christians there saw it as a step towards the Mark of the Beast. In the Covenant in Romania where my friend is now an Nun in they don't accept gifts that have barcodes because they see them as a massive step towards the Mark of the Beast, Esphigmenou the monastery on Mount Athos which St Gregory of Palamas who is one of the most important Saints in Byzantine Orthodoxy came from and is now Old Calendarist has the same policy.

It must be hard living without commodities that have bar codes on them these days.
 
Joined
Jul 31, 2017
Messages
896
Likes
1,306
Points
143
#9
Like Tadhg says, this wasn't a thing that i saw, and as you've pointed out before, i think, priests in the south of Ireland seem to be more of the liberal kind.
Maybe this has something to do with it ?

Neither is it a thing my mother ever really talked about.

Trips to fatima would be a thing, but more due to it being a religious pilgrim and not really relating to any "end of the world" message.
 

Wnoa

Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2017
Messages
380
Likes
802
Points
93
#11
These threads are great and very informative. I'm nowhere near knowledgeable enough to comment though.
I remember my uber-Catholic relatives seemed to believe in the end times and as far as I remember one of the revealed secrets of Fatima was concerned with the fall of Communism?
One thing that stuck with me was my great grandmother always maintained that we were currently living in the time 'God had allotted to Satan' and that in this era Satan would subvert morality in the sense that virtue would come to be considered as a vice and vice a virtue. Also humans would turn away from God and fetishise the individual or the self. This would be the period leading to the coming of Christ. Regardless of where she picked this up it certainly seems to have some relevance to society today.
 
OP
OP
SwordOfStCatherine
Joined
Oct 30, 2015
Messages
6,993
Likes
8,083
Points
313
#12
It must be hard living without commodities that have bar codes on them these days.
You are talking about people though who really embrace hardness for it's own sake and take even pleasure out of it. You might say that Liberalism is an outgrowth of Christianity but that mentality which is very much authentically Christian, just think of own Celtic Saints, is totally anathema to the likes of Merc. I asked my friend was there anything she misses about the world and she said tampons and paracetamol during her periods but she is struggling to properly repent over this. I asked "Emily Davison" over on the other place did she know any Eastern Orthodox Christians and she answered yes, so I replied how did she find them, and she said that she found them to be people the same as the Irish and English. Poor little Emily from that answer confirmed my suspicions that she only exists on a very surface level. The only people capable of really understanding the Believing Orthodox from contemporary Ireland are SSPX Catholics, Old Light Presbyterians and probably also the odd eccentric such as myself.
 
Joined
Oct 30, 2015
Messages
677
Likes
1,428
Points
143
#13
Ages ago I read an article about the communist revolution in Russia. I think it was written by some conservative Russian nationalist.

His view was that the overthrow and murder of the Tsar was the beginning of the "end times". The Tsar was the last "Roman Emperor". And the function of Christian Roman Emperors had been to act as earthly protectors of the Church. So when the Tsar was murdered the Church had lost its last Protector. And so began an era of terrible persecution of Christians.

Of course, lately there has been some allegations in Russia that the murder of the Tsar and his family was done in a ritual fashion.
 
OP
OP
SwordOfStCatherine
Joined
Oct 30, 2015
Messages
6,993
Likes
8,083
Points
313
#14
Ages ago I read an article about the communist revolution in Russia. I think it was written by some conservative Russian nationalist.

His view was that the overthrow and murder of the Tsar was the beginning of the "end times". The Tsar was the last "Roman Emperor". And the function of Christian Roman Emperors had been to act as earthly protectors of the Church. So when the Tsar was murdered the Church had lost its last Protector. And so began an era of terrible persecution of Christians.

Of course, lately there has been some allegations in Russia that the murder of the Tsar and his family was done in a ritual fashion.
Indeed- Tsar is Russian for Caesar. There was a belief in the Church that the Roman Empire was "that which restraineth" and it's destruction would usher in the era of the Antichrist. After Byzantium fell in the minds of a lot of Pious Orthodox Russia became the "Third Rome" so the fall of the Russian Empire took on massive eschatological significance both among the hard line Tsarist Russian Orthodox synod outside of Russia and those within her who rejected Stalin's concordant with the Russian Orthodox Church in 1927. There are a significant amount of Traditional Catholics also who believe that the destruction of the Austro-Hungarian Monarchy was the removal of "that which restraineth".
 
OP
OP
SwordOfStCatherine
Joined
Oct 30, 2015
Messages
6,993
Likes
8,083
Points
313
#15
By the way I totally reject the idea of the Roman Empire or Monarchial power being "that which restraineth" ("And now ye know that which restraineth, to the end that he may be revealed in his own season." 2 Thessalonians 2:6), even though I have always been a firm Monarchist.
 
Joined
Jan 18, 2018
Messages
47
Likes
10
Points
8
#17
es·cha·tol·o·gy 1the part of theology concerned with death, judgment, and the final destiny of the soul and of humankind.