Does contemporary "Liberal" Southern Irish Anti-Catholicism have it's roots in Conor "Cruise" O'Brien's response to the Troubles?

Tadhg Gaelach

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SwordOfStCatherine

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The truly great Cruiser exposed and wiped the floor with all the sectarian Catholic
( whether academic or not ) apologists for the Provo murdering scumbags. :)
First off while you do definitely get Tea Egg tribalism in Ulster actual sectarianism is very much a Prod thing and found much more rarely among the "CNR" community. Secondly you do fight Catholic sectarianism by adopting as your own one of the most loathsome if not actually the most loathsome itself type of Prod sectarianism in Ireland. His work has not aged well and with each passing year appears more and more ridiculous.
 

SwordOfStCatherine

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That scene where the Irish see these issues like marks on a scorecard for a test we have to pass being judged from outside the country (UK, EU and US seem to be the shifting 'graders') is a recurring theme among Irish Liberals alright. Sally Field's acceptance speech. When i was growing up in the 80s i would get confused because we were a nationalist sympathising familly - yet you opened a paper down here and all they ever spoke about was how bad the IRA were, with some Republican relatives i knew about the other side.

I think one of the things that scared and irritated the Southern Elites was the sympathies of Irish America - many of which lay with the Republican movement.
In order to have a healthy society in you need some type of vigorous patriotism, in their hysterics over the Troubles a large portion of the Southern ruling elites forgot this and ROI society is continuing to pay the price for that. I suppose now we see this weird type of "EU Partiotism" or even "EU Ultra-Nationalism" as manifested by Dan72 on this forum but I find that pretty hallow and on examination largely negative and culturally pathological through and through.
 

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First off while you do definitely get Tea Egg tribalism in Ulster actual sectarianism is very much a Prod thing and found much more rarely among the "CNR" community. Secondly you do fight Catholic sectarianism by adopting as your own one of the most loathsome if not actually the most loathsome itself type of Prod sectarianism in Ireland. His work has not aged well and with each passing year appears more and more ridiculous.
The myth always was that the Provos were not Catholic sectarian.

SF and dissident supporters in 2019 display the very same hateful ideology.

With added Anglophobia, naturally........
 

Tadhg Gaelach

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First off while you do definitely get Tea Egg tribalism in Ulster actual sectarianism is very much a Prod thing and found much more rarely among the "CNR" community. Secondly you do fight Catholic sectarianism by adopting as your own one of the most loathsome if not actually the most loathsome itself type of Prod sectarianism in Ireland. His work has not aged well and with each passing year appears more and more ridiculous.

I think when you look at the likes of Fintan O'Toole and Ivana Bacik, you seeing an anti-Catholicism that has a rather different and more exotic source.
 

Tadhg Gaelach

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The myth always was that the Provos were not Catholic sectarian.

SF and dissident supporters in 2019 display the very same hateful ideology.

With added Anglophobia, naturally........

Everybody hate the Anglos. That's not a phobia, that's just the desire to survive.
 

SwordOfStCatherine

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The myth always was that the Provos were not Catholic sectarian.

SF and dissident supporters in 2019 display the very same hateful ideology.

With added Anglophobia, naturally........
I would never deny that the PIRA did have within it a tribalist undercurrent by again the intensity of this greatly varied within the organization, however given the society that they emerged from they would have had to be great ascetics to be free from any tribalist undercurrent. There is though a big difference from being tribalist and being sectarian. An Orange man would be intensely prejudiced against a Catholic even if they were a tourist from Tibet while as someone in the IRSP/INLA may well have it in for the "Prods" but would not have anything about Latvian Lutherans per se.
 

SwordOfStCatherine

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I think when you look at the likes of Fintan O'Toole and Ivana Bacik, you seeing an anti-Catholicism that has a rather different and more exotic source.
Is Fintan O'Toole actually from a certain tribal confederacy? I have seen that said or implied on here but I have never seen it anywhere else and the two people I asked IRL said that they were pretty sure he wasn't.
 

Tadhg Gaelach

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Is Fintan O'Toole actually from a certain tribal confederacy? I have seen that said or implied on here but I have never seen it anywhere else and the two people I asked IRL said that they were pretty sure he wasn't.

I believe he is through the maternal line - which means he's the real thing.
 
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