Do you buy official line on American Civil War?

Myles O'Reilly

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True, but there was also a high rate of desertion.
Every southern state barring South Carolina raised patriotic regiments to fight for the Union. I ofttimes weep when I think of the landless men of the Tennessee hills who left their cabins and their families to fight under old glory against the rich planters who were stabbing their Country in the back.

Some of the commentary on this thread is appalling.
 

The Field Marshal

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The Govt wanted to do no such thing. The south started the war despite every exasperated effort by people like Lincoln to avoid it.

The traitors brought it upon themselves.
The southern confederate states had the political and moral right to secede from the the union.
The northern states had no moral right to stop that and in using violence to prevent it showed themselves to be nothing more than mass murdering brute thugs.
That is the basis for the entity known today as the USA .
Ie a country founded on the deliberate slaughter of hundreds of thousands of its own citizens whose only crime was to seek political freedom from tyranny.
 

The Field Marshal

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Every southern state barring South Carolina raised patriotic regiments to fight for the Union. I ofttimes weep when I think of the landless men of the Tennessee hills who left their cabins and their families to fight under old glory against the rich planters who were stabbing their Country in the back.

Some of the commentary on this thread is appalling.
Nothing to the appalling stance you have taken in justifying the mass slaughter unleashed by the union states against men whose only crime was to seek freedom from the tyranny of an intolerant federation .
 

Catalpa

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I don't really care one way or the other.
The American Civil war was really one band of backward savages fighting another.

The love of slaughter, violence and bloodshed still characterises vast swathes of American society to this day..
Helmuth von Moltke, the elder of the two notable Generals von Moltke and who made his fame in the Franco-Prussian War of 1870-1871, is noted for allegedly describing the American Civil War as nothing but “two armed-mobs” running around the countryside and beating each other up, from which very little of military utility could be learned.
 

Catalpa

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Many slave owners did not fight at all. The Law in the South allowed a man to evade military duty if he held 20 or more slaves. The war was about money and taxes. The Southern States wished to secede and be done with Washington DC
The better off in the North could do the same

Stephen Grover Cleveland (March 18, 1837 – June 24, 1908) was an American politician and lawyer who was the 22nd and 24th president of the United States, the only president in American history to serve two non-consecutive terms in office (1885–1889 and 1893–1897).https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grover_Cleveland#cite_note-3 ...

Cleveland worked for the Rogers firm for three years, then left in 1862 to start his own practice.[28] In January 1863, he was appointed assistant district attorney of Erie County.[29] With the American Civil War raging, Congress passed the Conscription Act of 1863, requiring able-bodied men to serve in the army if called upon, or else to hire a substitute.[27] Cleveland chose the latter course, paying $150 (equivalent to $3,052 in 2018) to George Benninsky, a thirty-two-year-old Polish immigrant, to serve in his place.[30]
 

The Field Marshal

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Helmuth von Moltke, the elder of the two notable Generals von Moltke and who made his fame in the Franco-Prussian War of 1870-1871, is noted for allegedly describing the American Civil War as nothing but “two armed-mobs” running around the countryside and beating each other up, from which very little of military utility could be learned.
Indeed but the moral high ground ,such as it was, was always held by the South whose secessionist rights were brutally and savagely suppressed by the Northern bully boy states.
 

Catalpa

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The southern confederate states had the political and moral right to secede from the the union.
The northern states had no moral right to stop that and in using violence to prevent it showed themselves to be nothing more than mass murdering brute thugs.
That is the basis for the entity known today as the USA .
Ie a country founded on the deliberate slaughter of hundreds of thousands of its own citizens whose only crime was to seek political freedom from tyranny.
The States that seceded in 1861 had all joined the USA of their volition

- there was no proviso in the US Constitution to allow them to leave the Union.
 

The Field Marshal

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The States that seceded in 1861 had all joined the USA of their volition

- there was no proviso in the US Constitution to allow them to leave the Union.
So what?
[You could argue on that basis that ROI Ireland had no right to secede from the UK.]

A large section of the an already oversized union wanted to secede.
They had the political right to do so free from coercion.
That the coercion turned into mass slaughter by the US federal state is is the sort of the thing that US federal state issued condemnations against when it came to the Nazi and Soviet regimes.

The hypocrisy of the “USA.” Federal state is quite astounding when it comes to its own back yard.
 
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Dan Óg

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The better off in the North could do the same

Stephen Grover Cleveland (March 18, 1837 – June 24, 1908) was an American politician and lawyer who was the 22nd and 24th president of the United States, the only president in American history to serve two non-consecutive terms in office (1885–1889 and 1893–1897).Grover Cleveland - Wikipedia ...

Cleveland worked for the Rogers firm for three years, then left in 1862 to start his own practice.[28] In January 1863, he was appointed assistant district attorney of Erie County.[29] With the American Civil War raging, Congress passed the Conscription Act of 1863, requiring able-bodied men to serve in the army if called upon, or else to hire a substitute.[27] Cleveland chose the latter course, paying $150 (equivalent to $3,052 in 2018) to George Benninsky, a thirty-two-year-old Polish immigrant, to serve in his place.[30]
Yes indeed, it would be a relatively smart move for an irish immigrant to be paid to be killed instead of getting killed for free. I do not think they could do this in the South but I am not sure tbh
 

Dan Óg

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The States that seceded in 1861 had all joined the USA of their volition

- there was no proviso in the US Constitution to allow them to leave the Union.
You are looking at this ass backwards. The Constitution laid out the powers given to the Federal Government, anything not listed was to be the business of the States themselves. Obviously there is no section or article therein, allowing force to be used to hold the States, because if there was, the States, none of them, would have ratified it.
 

The Field Marshal

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You are looking at this ass backwards. The Constitution laid out the powers given to the Federal Government, anything not listed was to be the business of the States themselves. Obviously there is no section or article therein, allowing force to be used to hold the States, because if there was, the States, none of them, would have ratified it.
So the Northern states acted unconstitutionally by using physical coercion to prevent the south secceeding.
Im not an American but Lincoln always struck me as an especially loathsome and cold fellow.
 

Dan Óg

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So the Northern states acted unconstitutionally by using physical coercion to prevent the south secceeding.
Im not an American but Lincoln always struck me as an especially loathsome and cold fellow.
The South would have viewed it as a rerun of The American Revolution. That is, overtaxed States seeking to separate from a distant tyrant in DC.
It was not a civil war at all as The Confederacy were not fighting to grab power in DC, they just wanted to go their way.
 
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