Discussion on Race, IQ, Genes etc.

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here is a society without binmen undesirable but society doesn't die as you fanatically put! value meaning:the monetary worth of something. scientists are of more value because they generate wealth. you really need to consider your mental health!
I see now at several points you have accused me of OCD

Then what is it when you reply to comments I have not made at all

and when you reply to comments I made to other people?
 
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here is a society without binmen undesirable but society doesn't die as you fanatically put! value meaning:the monetary worth of something. scientists are of more value because they generate wealth. you really need to consider your mental health!
Really?

If that keeps up, they fall prey to disease - Aids, Ebola etc, why else do you think all these diseases keep emanating or have most impact in Africa?

Because Africa is the petri dish for countless new forms of hyper rabid and evolved diseases, bacteria and viruses

Without waste disposal the rudiments of hygiene - taking the rubbish out - African race would now be on it's deathbed unfortunately.

Thank you again for graphically proving my point.
 

jon 1000's of irish f

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Really?

If that keeps up, they fall prey to disease - Aids, Ebola etc, why else do you think all these diseases keep emanating or have most impact in Africa?

Because Africa is the petri dish for countless new forms of hyper rabid and evolved diseases, bacteria and viruses

Without waste disposal the rudiments of hygiene - taking the rubbish out - African race would now be on it's deathbed unfortunately.

Thank you again for graphically proving my point.
er its not africa. regardless they are doing it and still alive. your points has been annihilated it's possible. you ignore the "value" part of the reply because you are wrong! get over it, if your mental issues will allow that!
 
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er its not africa. regardless they are doing it and still alive. your points has been annihilated it's possible. you ignore the "value" part of the reply because you are wrong! get over it, if your mental issues will allow that!
If my points were annihilated - you would never have had to
1) resort to insult - constantly
2) put it to a vote
3) move the goalposts and change your wording

I answered your point about "value" from the start and several times after - as well as any other word you changed it to, which all meant the same principle too. Do not add lying to the above list.
Your arguments stand or fall by themselves, not by the above gimmicks = your arguments were refuted.

What you seem, to have missed (once again) is that - in the society above, the rate of death, disease and sickness as with slums in any part of the world, has a higher mortality rate and lower life span, it is also at greater risk of mass-population killer viruses - Aids, Ebola, plague.
These conditions act as incubators for such risk and detrimental to health.

Societies can function quite well without scientists. Scientists are not a necessity, they are a luxury after the fundamental requirements are seen to.

Societies cannot function at all without binmen. Without binmen there are no scientists at all, there is no society at all.
Binmen are a necessity, a requirement to the very existence of life itself.

Hence binmen are of more value than scientists.
 
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What you seem, to have missed (once again) is that - in the society above, the rate of death, disease and sickness as with slums in any part of the world, has a higher mortality rate and lower life span, it is also at greater risk of mass-population killer viruses - Aids, Ebola, plague.
These conditions act as incubators for such risk and detrimental to health.
Which we would not know without... scientists.

Societies can function quite well without scientists. Scientists are not a necessity, they are a luxury after the fundamental requirements are seen to.
Except that they aren't; science can only be done once you have enough people with a bit of spare time, but was done long before we had binmen.

Societies cannot function at all without binmen.
Sure it can, and it did.

Without binmen there are no scientists at all, there is no society at all.
Sure there is.

Concerted waste disposal wasn't even an issue until scientists allowed us to increase our population density to a point waste became something that needed to be thought about.

Scientists then made (not entirely correctly) made the link between waste and disease and provided basis for instituting waste management.

If there hadn't been any scientists, we wouldn't have binmen in the first place.
 
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Which we would not know without... scientists.

Except that they aren't; science can only be done once you have enough people with a bit of spare time, but was done long before we had binmen.


Sure it can, and it did.

Sure there is.

Concerted waste disposal wasn't even an issue until scientists allowed us to increase our population density to a point waste became something that needed to be thought about.

Scientists then made (not entirely correctly) made the link between waste and disease and provided basis for instituting waste management.

If there hadn't been any scientists, we wouldn't have binmen in the first place.
Incorrect.
Yes, we would know - animals know to act as hygienists and binmen by instinct i.e to clean themselves and their dens.
It is an instinct among cats and a lot of animals, to excrete faeces in a different location away from the den, and to cover it up.
They know this by genetic instinct.

You say science can only be done once you have enough people.
This "rubbishes" your argument.
1. your argument implies science is a luxury, something engaged in when a civilisation takes place
2. that it needs more than a handful of people, it needs many people
3. they need spare time to engage in it - this indicates clearly they are tending to more important matters before they have the luxury to dabble in "science"

As said several times before:
Clearing of waste, clearing of rubbish - is a fundamental requirement to a functioning society - it is done from individual level up to whole planet
Science is not fundamental to a functioning society.

People dispose of waste as a fundamental function to survive and diminish risk of disease - if people did not excrete, they would die
Disposal of waste must done by single individuals right up to planetary level population - it is a crucial activity for survival
You have just stated science needs a certain 'optmimal level' of people.

Scientists and society cannot function, the individual and society inevitably falls prey to disease without clearing of waste i.e without binmen
Binmen and society can function quite well without scientists

Hence:
Binmen are of more value than scientists
 
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Incorrect.
Yes, we would know - animals know to act as hygienists and binmen by instinct i.e to clean themselves and their dens.
It is an instinct among cats and a lot of animals, to excrete faeces in a different location away from the den, and to cover it up.
They know this by genetic instinct.
And yet as recently as the1940s people needed the civil service to create outhouses because they didn't realise not burying your faeces deep enough gives you hookworm if you shit in the same place twice.

Genetic instinct me hole.
You say science can only be done once you have enough people.
This "rubbishes" your argument.
1. your argument implies science is a luxury, something engaged in when a civilisation takes place
And yet as recently as the1940s people needed the civil service to create outhouses because they didn't realise not burying your faeces deep enough gives you hookworm if you shit in the same place twice.

Genetic instinct me hole.
2. that it needs more than a handful of people, it needs many people
Yes, it does, but it still comes before waste disposal becomes an issue. It's what then permits waste disposal to be necessary

3. they need spare time to engage in it - this indicates clearly they are tending to more important matters before they have the luxury to dabble in "science"

As said several times before:
Clearing of waste, clearing of rubbish - is a fundamental requirement to a functioning society - it is done from individual level up to whole planet
Science is not fundamental to a functioning society.

People dispose of waste as a fundamental function to survive and diminish risk of disease - if people did not excrete, they would die
Disposal of waste must done by single individuals right up to planetary level population - it is a crucial activity for survival
You have just stated science needs a certain 'optmimal level' of people.

Scientists and society cannot function, the individual and society inevitably falls prey to disease without clearing of waste i.e without binmen
Binmen and society can function quite well without scientists

Hence:
Binmen are of more value than scientists[/QUOTE]
 
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Incorrect.
Yes, we would know - animals know to act as hygienists and binmen by instinct i.e to clean themselves and their dens.
It is an instinct among cats and a lot of animals, to excrete faeces in a different location away from the den, and to cover it up.
They know this by genetic instinct.
And yet as late as the 1940s the American civil service had to start building outhouses to control the outbreak of hookworm, because people didn't understand that shitting in the same place twice spreads hookworm if you don't bury it deep enough.

Instinct me hole.

You say science can only be done once you have enough people.
This "rubbishes" your argument.
1. your argument implies science is a luxury, something engaged in when a civilisation takes place[
2. that it needs more than a handful of people, it needs many people
Yes it does, but it still comes way before waste disposal.

3. they need spare time to engage in it - this indicates clearly they are tending to more important matters before they have the luxury to dabble in "science"
Yep, but that kicks in way, way before binmen.

As said several times before:
Clearing of waste, clearing of rubbish - is a fundamental requirement to a functioning society - it is done from individual level up to whole planet
Science is not fundamental to a functioning society.
If you're tasking waste disposal down to the level of wiping your arse maybe; nomads just had to drop and walk. Hunters would field-dress; and walk. Hardly waste disposal, is it? Certainly no need for binmen.
If you're going to take it to an individual level, you have to take pretty much any rational thought as science. But you're saying binmen, who are people whose main occupation is to dispose of waste. And they come after scientists.
People dispose of waste as a fundamental function to survive and diminish risk of disease - if people did not excrete, they would die
If they never had a thought are they even human ?
Disposal of waste must done by single individuals right up to planetary level population - it is a crucial activity for survival
You have just stated science needs a certain 'optmimal level' of people.
I didn't say optimal level. I said that it simply needs people to have enough time to think about the best way to do something. That happens a long time before we need someone whose main occupation is to get rid of rubbish.
Scientists and society cannot function, the individual and society inevitably falls prey to disease without clearing of waste i.e without binmen
Except they don't; society existed long before the 19th century, before binmen. Scientists came on the scene a long time before then.
Binmen and society can function quite well without scientists
If you're going to make the amalgam between professional and activity you have to say that anyone who thinks is acting as a scientist.
If you do that, your premise is wrong.
Just like it is be any other reasoning.

Scientists make discoveries, like the photovoltaic effect, the notion of genetic heritability, the development of biofuel, the cultivation of beer, of crops, devellopment of geometry, optics, pyrotechnics, making fire etc etc etc

At some point all of those were cutting-edge science until they became common-place skills.

No-one ever needed a professional-walker-away-from-turds.
If you take your definition "Society can't function without" as being the basis for the expression "more important than" then non-suicidal people are more important than binmen, etc congratulations everyone alive, we're all more important than binmen...[/QUOTE]
 
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Uisce Beatha
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Lads, ye're arguing about binmen on a board that's supposed to be about genetics and race, stop getting caught up in an argument that's completely unrelated. It's just creating clutter on the board, c'mon lads.
 
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Lads, ye're arguing about binmen on a board that's supposed to be about genetics and race, stop getting caught up in an argument that's completely unrelated. It's just creating clutter on the board, c'mon lads.
In fairness, each of the many different points your Original Picture raises would be a whole conversation in itself.

To take point one; "Race has no biological basis":

The pithy phrase "race has no biological basis" describes a disconnect between very different scales of analysis.

One is taxonomical, the other is molecular. Let's take race out of it and look at species.
Taxonomically, species used to be grouped together by their different traits. Horses and zebras in the same family, different kinds of elephants together etc.

Everyone more or less expected to find that the more two things looked alike, the more their genetics would look alike. Empirically that was shown to be wrong. Very similar things can be wildly different genetically, and very genetically similar things can be physically different.

Things that once were thought to be a single species, are argued to be two or more different species (like the African elephant).

To bring race back into it, race theory supposes that you can guess (otherwise invisible) things about a person by their physical characteristics, or by their ancestry etc. But if there's no highly reliable link between a physical trait and genetics, and no highly reliable link between genetics and a physical trait, then it becomes pointless as a measure and therefore pointless as a concept.

That's a more or less scientific view. It doesn't mean that race has no basis in biology, it means that for the purposes of science, it's better to directly test something rather than try to infer in directly from something unreliable.

You'd be fairly aggrieved if you doctor said you have to take insulin shots because your father has diabetes; you'd want him to actually test you.

Unscientifically though, if your father has diabetes, you really do want to keep an eye on it, because you really are at risk.

It's not that race doesn't have a basis in biology, it's that it's too fuzzy and wishy-washy to be used for anything serious.
 
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A Poem about Intelligence for My Brothers and Sisters
BY JUNE JORDAN

A few years back and they told me Black
means a hole where other folks
got brain/it was like the cells in the heads
of Black children was out to every hour on the hour naps
Scientists called the phenomenon the Notorious
Jensen Lapse, remember?
Anyway I was thinking
about how to devise
a test for the wise
like a Stanford-Binet
for the C.I.A.
you know?
Take Einstein
being the most the unquestionable the outstanding
the maximal mind of the century
right?
And I’m struggling against this lapse leftover
from my Black childhood to fathom why
anybody should say so:
E=mc squared?
I try that on this old lady live on my block:
She sweeping away Saturday night from the stoop
and mad as can be because some absolute
jackass have left a kingsize mattress where
she have to sweep around it stains and all she
don’t want to know nothing about in the first place
“Mrs. Johnson!” I say, leaning on the gate
between us: “What you think about somebody come up
with an E equals M C 2?
“How you doin,” she answer me, sideways, like she don’t
want to let on she know I ain’
combed my hair yet and here it is
Sunday morning but still I have the nerve
to be bothering serious work with these crazy
questions about
E equals what you say again, dear?”
Then I tell her, “Well
also this same guy? I think
he was undisputed Father of the Atom Bomb!”
“That right.” She mumbles or grumbles, not too politely
“And dint remember to wear socks when he put on
his shoes!” I add on (getting desperate)
at which point Mrs. Johnson take herself and her broom
a very big step down the stoop away from me
“And never did nothing for nobody in particular
lessen it was a committee
and
used to say, ‘What time is it?’
and
you’d say, ‘Six o’clock.’
and
he’d say, ‘Day or night?’
and
and he never made nobody a cup a tea
in his whole brilliant life!
and
[my voice rises slightly]
and
he dint never boogie neither: never!”

“Well,” say Mrs. Johnson, “Well, honey,
I do guess
that’s genius for you.”
 
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