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Blacks and Presbyterianism in the United States?

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#1
There are three ethnic groups that make up the bulk of Presbyterians in the United States; the Koreans, the Dutch (though there are also "Dutch Reformed" denominations over there) and the Scotch Irish plus Scotch Scots so to speak. Of course the Dutch are by far the wealthiest, the Koreans are the most disciplined and Pious, and the poor old Scots are the best at music and well consuming alcohol (the Scotch Irish used to be infamous for drinking beer in the colonies during Church Services and no I'm not making that up). The thing is that over there you will be hard pressed to find any Black Presbyterians though there are some (mainly in the PCUSA which is the most "Liberal" group and not considered a proper Kirk by the rest because of their views on homosexualist marriage, etc).

When I discovered this as a teen and asked about it I was told that the reason for this was that the Scotch Irish were to moral to own slaves (yeah right- sometimes I wonder whether people like amster wouldn't be better off enslaved to people of quality and it would supply some purpose to their existence). A Southern Presbyterian I befriended in a Paltalk chat room and whom I'm still in touch told me that the "negro" (his word!) was incapable of the intellectual rigors of Calvinism (he has calmed down since than), however one of the stereotypes of Black Africans which I have found to be true to at least some degree is that they have a tendency to fatalism which would fit in with a belief in Predestination very easily. Was it simply a case of the Scottish and Scotch Irish settlers being to poor to own slaves? Has anyone else come across this issue being discussed?
 

Tadhg Gaelach

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#2
There are three ethnic groups that make up the bulk of Presbyterians in the United States; the Koreans, the Dutch (though there are also "Dutch Reformed" denominations over there) and the Scotch Irish plus Scotch Scots so to speak. Of course the Dutch are by far the wealthiest, the Koreans are the most disciplined and Pious, and the poor old Scots are the best at music and well consuming alcohol (the Scotch Irish used to be infamous for drinking beer in the colonies during Church Services and no I'm not making that up). The thing is that over there you will be hard pressed to find any Black Presbyterians though there are some (mainly in the PCUSA which is the most "Liberal" group and not considered a proper Kirk by the rest because of their views on homosexualist marriage, etc).

When I discovered this as a teen and asked about it I was told that the reason for this was that the Scotch Irish were to moral to own slaves (yeah right- sometimes I wonder whether people like amster wouldn't be better off enslaved to people of quality and it would supply some purpose to their existence). A Southern Presbyterian I befriended in a Paltalk chat room and whom I'm still in touch told me that the "negro" (his word!) was incapable of the intellectual rigors of Calvinism (he has calmed down since than), however one of the stereotypes of Black Africans which I have found to be true to at least some degree is that they have a tendency to fatalism which would fit in with a belief in Predestination very easily. Was it simply a case of the Scottish and Scotch Irish settlers being to poor to own slaves? Has anyone else come across this issue being discussed?

That comes as a surprise to me a chara. I thought that a lot of the Confederate elite came from Scotch Irish background? Or maybe I'm just being too influenced by Gone With The Wind. Mind you, O'Hara wouldn't be a typical Scotch Irish name.
 
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SwordOfStCatherine
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#3
That comes as a surprise to me a chara. I thought that a lot of the Confederate elite came from Scotch Irish background? Or maybe I'm just being too influenced by Gone With The Wind. (Mind you, they were supposed to be Irish Catholics - probably even less likely to own slaves than the Irish Presbyterians).
Not really. A lot of the Scotch Irish were Appalachian "Mountain Folk" though obviously some were part of the Elite or else they wouldn't have got to be President. This is something that I should know but I don't and will have to look into to give a precise picture. Than though is the fact that a lot of Anglo-Irish colonists got lumped in as Scotch Irish when in actual fact you are talking about very different groups (think about the difference between David Norris and Ian Paisley Snr for example), so how many of the supposed Scotch Irish Presidents were actually Anglo-Irish? Maybe Young Dan has the answer.
 

Tadhg Gaelach

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Not really. A lot of the Scotch Irish were Appalachian "Mountain Folk" though obviously some were part of the Elite or else they wouldn't have got to be President. This is something that I should know but I don't and will have to look into to give a precise picture. Than though is the fact that a lot of Anglo-Irish colonists got lumped in as Scotch Irish when in actual fact you are talking about very different groups (think about the difference between David Norris and Ian Paisley Snr for example), so how many of the supposed Scotch Irish Presidents were actually Anglo-Irish? Maybe Young Dan has the answer.

I have to say that it's always been a mystery to me why the Scottish Gael took to Calvinism with such vigour. But then, the Irish Gael seemed to favour a particularly harsh form of Catholicism also.
 
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#5
It should be said most of the Scots Irish came in the 18th century to America and they were initially bonded servents.

The big plantation owners were mostly Anglos, descended from Merchants and Aristocrats.(hence the claim they were "cavaliers")

Of course, some Scots Irish did become rich and own slaves a prime example being Andrew Jackson.

Nonetheless IMO the Scots Irish get a unfair reputation.

It should be said the Scots Irish made up a good proportion of the Confederate army and they were excellent soldiers.