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Anti-irish racism & Propaganda. From da Brits and elsewhere.

Esto Praesidium

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English catholicism understandably is given to severity, strict observence of rules perhaps even rigidity.
There current masses are extremely long as are the sermons from their priests.
English catholics take their religion exceptionally seriously with little room for humour or levity.
Whereas Irish Catholicism is this.
 

The Field Marshal

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Vicariously, and with a good dollop of Italian Catholicism.
Thank you for your reply.

I hope you are aware then that contemporary, Tridentine and pre Tridentine catholic liturgy and doctrines are all essentially codified products of the fanatical Roman Emperor Theodosius 1.

The entire corpus of canon law, theology and liturgy is heavily infused and badly contaminated with the authoritarianism of the absolutist Roman Imperial state from the time of Theodosius and the .Edict of Thessalonica

 
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Eriugena

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Thank you for your reply.

I hope you are aware then that contemporary, Tridentine and pre Tridentine catholic liturgy and doctrines are all essentially codified products of the fanatical Roman Emperor Theodosius 1.

The entire corpus of canon law, theology and liturgy is heavily infused and badly contaminated with the authoritarianism of the absolutist Roman Imperial state from the time of Theodosius and the .Edict of Thessalonica
I am familiar with Church history. I disagree with "essentially" and "badly contaminated".
 

The Field Marshal

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I am familiar with Church history. I disagree with "essentially" and "badly contaminated".
Surely you must agree that the elevation of Christianity to the official state religion of the Roman Empire plus the suppression and persecution of all non catholic religions must have influenced the doctrines and attitudes of the clergy toward the laity etc?

All this began in 380.

Only the most highly naive person would try and argue that the Roman catholic clergy benefitting immensely from this new official dispensation would always act without self interest to promote, protect, and consolidate their new found status.
 

Eriugena

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Surely you must agree that the elevation of Christianity to the official state religion of the Roman Empire plus the suppression and persecution of all non catholic religions must have influenced the doctrines and attitudes of the clergy toward the laity etc?
All this began in 380.
The Church has been an hierarchical structure from its founder who set it up that way.
Only the most highly naive person would try and argue that the roman catholic clergy benefitting immensely from this new official dispensation would always act without self interest to promote, protect, and consolidate their new found official status.
The Church on earth consists entirely of sinners, so there will always be temptations, occasional abuses, even periods of decay. None of this impacts on the sacred and pristine nature of the Church or its teachings.
 

An Fiach Ban

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Orwell was anti-Irish.

"Catholics in England, the bulk of them very poor Irish labourers, were the only really conscious, logical intelligent enemies that democracy has got in England... They were a silent drag on Labour Party policy but are not sufficiently under the thumb of their priests to be fascist in sympathy."
I thought the choice of O Brien as Smiths tormentor was inspired, all over the communist world, minorities who know enough of a countries culture and speak the same language flawlessly held power, but, did not exercise it on behalf of the people of the country they were mean to serve, Dzerzhinsky, Stalin, etc were disaffected aliens who did not care about the historic nation they controlled.
 

The Field Marshal

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The Church has been an hierarchical structure from its founder who set it up that way.
The Church on earth consists entirely of sinners, so there will always be temptations, occasional abuses, even periods of decay. None of this impacts on the sacred and pristine nature of the Church or its teachings.

On the topic sure the Brit clergy sought power in Ireland via the popes as well and were mostly anti Irish

\Off topic comment
[All
churches are hierarchical.
The term hierarch comes from Greek for high priest.
Nothing at all unusual therefore about a hierarchy in any church let alone the catholic church.
The catholic hierarchy as known today was codified under the civil/religious structure of the Roman Empire.

My point is that the hierarchy having been granted extraordinary and exclusive status and power under the Edict of Thessalonika in 380 have often abused that power egregiously since then for selfish and self reinforcing ends.
To allege that none of this impacts on liturgy or teaching concerning priestly power and the liturgy is not plausible given the corruption of human nature due to the Fall.
Are you going to allege that catholic priests and bishops over the centuries never sought to entrench and expand their power and official status granted to them] by Emperor Theodosius in 380?
 

Eriugena

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My point is that the hierarchy having been granted extraordinary and exclusive status and power under the Edict of Thessalonika in 380 have often abused that power egregiously since then for selfish and self reinforcing ends.
Often? That it has happened from time to time is not controversial.
To allege that none of this impacts on liturgy or teaching concerning priestly power and the liturgy is not plausible given the corruption of human nature due to the Fall.
It can have none but accidental impact, for the magisterium itself is infallible.
 

The Field Marshal

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Often? That it has happened from time to time is not controversial.
It can have none but accidental impact, for the magisterium itself is infallible.
we are going off topic.
[i will discuss this further on your papal thread]
 
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do Prod countries like the UK & Australia all have a glass ceiling for the irish in high-level appointments ? especially for high jobs in the Civil Service ?

i am certain you can find me individual examples of irish holders of high-office, but are the irish proportionate in all these high jobs ? or is it just one fella here and there ?
 
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