A Universal Basic Income to be a policy in Labour's Manifesto in next UK General Election?

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se0samh

se0samh

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#37
If it is achieved, it would have the same implications as free energy: scarcity will have been near eliminated.

Prices will fall at a much faster rate than wages, so being able to afford life's essentials won't be a problem.
If there is no work, there will be no wages, income then will have to be something similar to a UBI, won't it?
 
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#38
There is a qualitative difference in the technological changes now taking place though, farm workers displaced by machinery were able to get jobs producing machinery...now the machines will be making all the machines...a human or two may get jobs looking after the guard dogs perhaps...if there are guard dogs...
Describe me a strawberry picking machine from the future that is not actually a Chinese imported worker, likewise a gas fitter.
 
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#39
If there is no work, there will be no wages, income then will have to be something similar to a UBI, won't it?
And the consistent State income to pay UBI comes from where?

Not knocking the idea, something, as others have said has to give, just wondering how, on the back of a hugely reduced tax take the whole shebang might work.
 
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#40
And the consistent State income to pay UBI comes from where?

Not knocking the idea, something, as others have said has to give, just wondering how, on the back of a hugely reduced tax take the whole shebang might work.
Why do you think there'll be a 'hugely reduced tax take'?

With everyone getting a ubi there'll be a hugely increased tax take.
 
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#42
Why do you think there'll be a 'hugely reduced tax take'?

With everyone getting a ubi there'll be a hugely increased tax take.
Giving people money and then taking some of it back seems like playing shop to me.
 

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#43
According to a report in the Independent, Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell has said that Labour are considering adding a commitment to test a UBI, with the intention of replacing means tested benefits.

Is this a sensible idea, a cynical ploy to buy votes, or an admixture of both, what say you fellow PIpsters, and can it be any worse than the hated Universal Credit, so beloved of Tories and so condemned by everyone else?

Labour set to pilot radical basic income policy in next manifesto, John McDonnell says
Given the potential for robots and machine learning to automate loads of processes currently done by white collar workers, the 'knowledge economy' looks set to employ far fewer people than it now does. Stockbrokers of the traditional type are already staring over the brink as algorithms can do a far better job of it than humans can. If ML/AI/Robots rule, then a universal minimum wage will soon be the only way to avoid mass poverty. Tax companies who use automation to cut their workforces to pay for it.
 
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#44
Two questions:

How is this not inflationary? You are effectively uplifting the dole?

Also, this might be politically incorrect, but a significant cohort of welfare dependants are not competent with managing their affairs, or money generally. So will they be able to cope with a basic income.

That aside, we are trying to get the HAP and other welfare benefits for an incompetent relative at present . They now qualify for loads, but the paperwork and navigation of the state agencies is very daunting. They don't have a social worker to help them, so we (generic PAYE workers, who get nothing outside of children's allowance and the MED1) are discovering a whole new world.

Any big reduction in admin is to be welcomed.
 
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se0samh

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#45
Two questions:

How is this not inflationary? You are effectively uplifting the dole?

Also, this might be politically incorrect, but a significant cohort of welfare dependants are not competent with managing their affairs, or money generally. So will they be able to cope with a basic income.

That aside, we are trying to get the HAP and other welfare benefits for an incompetent relative at present . They now qualify for loads, but the paperwork and navigation of the state agencies is very daunting. They don't have a social worker to help them, so we (generic PAYE workers, who get nothing outside of children's allowance and the MED1) are discovering a whole new world.

Any big reduction in admin is to be welcomed.

Can't see how inflation would be affected at present, or the near future....when and if employment is reduced to minimal levels, it may not even exist as a problem....but if factories still exist to produce goods, then those will need to be bought...and those buying will need to have some sort of income to do that buying....

That is for the future though, at present such a scheme may be either a cost saver or at least neutral, and may free up people to follow more productive interests...there is a ridiculous situation at present, that someone under educated cannot improve their educational standards or re-train, without falling foul of the availability for work rules...
 
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#46
Can't see how inflation would be affected at present, or the near future....when and if employment is reduced to minimal levels, it may not even exist as a problem....but if factories still exist to produce goods, then those will need to be bought...and those buying will need to have some sort of income to do that buying....

That is for the future though, at present such a scheme may be either a cost saver or at least neutral, and may free up people to follow more productive interests...there is a ridiculous situation at present, that someone under educated cannot improve their educational standards or re-train, without falling foul of the availability for work rules...
On inflation, there is a simple supply and demand relationship. More cash = higher prices in many cases.

On the future state of all jobs done by machines, well, that is a bigger "futurist" debate, don't know how that will pan out, but I take the hypothesis on-board.

Regarding training. Absolutely there should be no penalties in welfare for someone trying to become employable or better paid so it takes them out of a welfare trap.
 
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se0samh

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#47
On inflation, there is a simple supply and demand relationship. More cash = higher prices in many cases.

On the future state of all jobs done by machines, well, that is a bigger "futurist" debate, don't know how that will pan out, but I take the hypothesis on-board.

Regarding training. Absolutely there should be no penalties in welfare for someone trying to become employable or better paid so it takes them out of a welfare trap.
Not quite that simple though is it? Usually too much cash chasing too few goods...and then there is commodity inflation being imported reducing cash available for other things....anyhoo, I can't see how that really affects this situation, it's a basic income to replace means tested benefits.
 
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#48
Not quite that simple though is it? Usually too much cash chasing too few goods...and then there is commodity inflation being imported reducing cash available for other things....anyhoo, I can't see how that really affects this situation, it's a basic income to replace means tested benefits.
So what happens to all of the extra benefits people get which are means tested. Like HAP.

Does everyone get the equivalent of Max HAP and dole and FIS and then they are taxed on the rest?

You always have to means test.
 
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